SIPP providers: a quick comparison between InteractiveInvestor, AJ Bell and iWeb

[TUK020]

Hi TUK,

Do you know much about HL's policy re. limit orders? iWeb have a great feature, in which if you have say £1000 in your account and 5 different stocks on your "current wish list" then you can setup limit orders for all 5 stocks each for a maximum value of that £1000. Basically whichever stock hits its limit price first is the one which is purchased. IMO this can work out very well for broadening one's scope but with a smallish cash allocation.

Alas neither AJBell nor II implement this feature, instead once a single limit order is configured the allocated total cash is ringfenced and cannot be used in the consideration for another more advantageous purchase should that manifest in the meantime.

As I said Iweb have this implementation in their limit order execution policy (which is amazing because their ISA account is v cheap). So I wondered if you could comment on whether HL do this?

For that matter does anyone else on here know of a platform with a policy simi!ar to iWeb's?

Thanks Matt

Not explored limit orders on either, I'm afraid.
Have a rummage on the HL site, it is pretty good/explanatory

[PrefInvestor]

Hi Matt, My broker is HL (same functionality for an ISA, SIPP or trading account). I am very happy with them apart from their pricing. If you want to invest in OEICs or UTs then you definitely should look elsewhere as their charges are significant. But personally I don’t use these investments types for various reasons - they don’t trade like shares, personally not impressed by “active management” also I still think that there are probably many charges being hidden in the price. I am quite content to restricting myself to ITs, ETFs and shares. Plenty of choice there.

Regarding limit orders I use them quite a bit, mainly for purchases. The money is not ring fenced and you can place many limit orders with effectively the same money. However if one such limit order is placed then should one of the others get triggered then it won’t go thru without sufficient funds on your account at the time.

I have also experienced the odd case of limit orders on ITs and Preference Shares not being placed even though the pricing criteria has been met eg you place an order to buy something at 100p and the price gets to 99.5p and the limit order is still sitting there. I am just reconciled to checking my limit orders regularly and if I find that’s the case then I place the order manually.

Service on HL is generally very good. Just “re-assuringly expensive” that’s all !.

ATB

Pref

[terminal7]

My broker is HL (same functionality for an ISA, SIPP or trading account). I am very happy with them apart from their pricing

There's the big rub. On a sizeable six figure HL pot of mainly funds in both SIPP/ISA, I transferred the lot some 6 months ago and the annual saving in charges equates to about £650. I have extensive experience of HL, ii, AJB and a few pension providers over decades. Yes HL has provided the best service but is it worth to me £650 pa? In some cases the service from others has been just about acceptable - but only based on the fact that I am fairly savvy in pension matters. I suspect for those who are totally reliant for technical advise that HL may indeed be worth paying the extra.

T7

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

What I *think* I'm going to go is open a SIPP with iWeb. The admin fee is £90/yr when under 50k of portfolio, and £180/yr when over.

Dealing fee still the same £5 per transaction, and the same preferential limit order treatment.

The weird part of it all is that quote "the SIPP handling part of it, done by AJBell" (!). Perhaps they do the tax reclaiming part of it? I currently don't know the full details.

The problem is the drawdown charges. Somewhat higher than others. However, transferring out is £75. So I don't think there's anything stopping me, starting out w/ and iWeb SIPP, at the tender age of 52 years, and perhaps when I'm between 65-75, if they are still charging for drawdown then, then transferring out to another.

Matt

[PrefInvestor]

There's the big rub. On a sizeable six figure HL pot of mainly funds in both SIPP/ISA, I transferred the lot some 6 months ago and the annual saving in charges equates to about £650. I have extensive experience of HL, ii, AJB and a few pension providers over decades. Yes HL has provided the best service but is it worth to me £650 pa? In some cases the service from others has been just about acceptable - but only based on the fact that I am fairly savvy in pension matters. I suspect for those who are totally reliant for technical advise that HL may indeed be worth paying the extra.

T7

Well as I said if OEICs and UTs are your chosen investment vehicles then you should definitely avoid HL due to their charges (0.45% pa of everything that you have invested in funds charged monthly, slightly less for larger portfolios). So yes £100,000 in Funds would cost you ~£450 pa, so easy to see where your savings have come from. But NO such charges if you only hold shares, ETFs and ITs.

And its true their share trading costs are higher than many others too at £11.95 a trade (falling to £8.95 and then £5.95 dependant on the number of trades in the last month).

But on the other hand they are a big well capitalised broker (so not very likely to go bust) and in my experience they provide very good service. For someone like myself who doesnt want to invest in OEICs and UTs and is quite happy with shares, ETFs ad ITs they are not an unreasonable choice IMV.

Those who choose very small brokers to save a few pounds on their trading costs are making a false economy IMHO. Not suggesting that ii or AJB fall into that category btw and your fundamental point I quite understand.

ATB

Pref

[mc2fool]

What I *think* I'm going to go is open a SIPP with iWeb. The admin fee is £90/yr when under 50k of portfolio, and £180/yr when over.

Dealing fee still the same £5 per transaction, and the same preferential limit order treatment.

The weird part of it all is that quote "the SIPP handling part of it, done by AJBell" (!). Perhaps they do the tax reclaiming part of it? I currently don't know the full details.

Start here: https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/our-accounts/self-invested-personal-pension.html and read the documents under "Apply for an IWeb SIPP". SIPP Service Terms and Conditions (PDF) explains who provides what.

The problem is the drawdown charges. Somewhat higher than others. However, transferring out is £75.

No it isn't; transferring out is free. Transferring in (from another pension scheme) is £60. https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/our-accounts/self-invested-personal-pension/sipp-charges.html (see Other Charges)

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

What I *think* I'm going to go is open a SIPP with iWeb. The admin fee is £90/yr when under 50k of portfolio, and £180/yr when over.

Dealing fee still the same £5 per transaction, and the same preferential limit order treatment.

The weird part of it all is that quote "the SIPP handling part of it, done by AJBell" (!). Perhaps they do the tax reclaiming part of it? I currently don't know the full details.

Start here: https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/our-accounts/self-invested-personal-pension.html and read the documents under "Apply for an IWeb SIPP". SIPP Service Terms and Conditions (PDF) explains who provides what.

The problem is the drawdown charges. Somewhat higher than others. However, transferring out is £75.

No it isn't; transferring out is free. Transferring in (from another pension scheme) is £60. https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/our-accounts/self-invested-personal-pension/sipp-charges.html (see Other Charges)

Many thanks for spotting this mc2fool,

I was sure we'd seen £75 mentioned somewhere! We've probably confused ourselves on one firm or others web-pages or PDFs in past day or two. Our household has been buzzing lately with various things, since we've lots of "children-admin" (tuition and uni etc.) just lately too.

I was wondering....do you have your own SIPP with iWeb too?

Matt

[mc2fool]

I was wondering....do you have your own SIPP with iWeb too?

Yes, and an ISA & dealing account with IWeb too; and also an ISA & dealing account with II.

In regards to the IWeb SIPP, as you're already an IWeb customer you're basically familiar with it all already; the SIPP just appears as another account alongside your ISA & dealing accounts and you operate it in exactly the same way (subject to obvious SIPP restrictions, like you can't move money in or out willy-nilly through the Fund & Withdraw mechanism.)

And before you ask, no, I don't use limit orders.

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

I was wondering....do you have your own SIPP with iWeb too?

Yes, and an ISA & dealing account with IWeb too; and also an ISA & dealing account with II.

In regards to the IWeb SIPP, as you're already an IWeb customer you're basically familiar with it all already; the SIPP just appears as another account alongside your ISA & dealing accounts and you operate it in exactly the same way (subject to obvious SIPP restrictions, like you can't move money in or out willy-nilly through the Fund & Withdraw mechanism.)

And before you ask, no, I don't use limit orders.

No but you have a sense of humour....and that's always a good thing when talking to someone like me!
Matt

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

UPDATE:

Well after cancelling my AJBell SIPP after only 2.5 days, I have eventually received the £1300 I funded the account with back.

I have to say that I was confronted with a very scary sea of ineptitude with my dealings with them over the phone and over email. Their staff are not as well as trained as their should be IMHO. I would say "you get what you pay for" but to be honest I think they are somewhat pricier than iWeb, and have a worst level of customer service.

My reasons for cancelling the account:

1. Their implementation of limit orders, see here.
2. Limit orders are not an option for US shares.
3. Despite the above 2 points their dealing charges are higher than iWeb (which offer flexible LMT orders for the UK, and ringfenced ones for overseas shares)
4. Their web chat service is a total joke all the times I tried to use it, it announced "all our staff are either offline or dealing w/ others", please send us a secure message [1]. All the competent online places that I usually deal with using chat, at least have a queue position indicator when the service provider is busy.

After I cancelled I became doubly sure of my convictions, after:

1. Being told that I couldn't be transferred my cash since "it was all in pending trades". It wasn't. It was all available cash. I kicked up a massive fuss and eventually I *strongly persuaded* that they CHAPS me the money the next day. They did.
2. Receiving a letter from them thanking me for updating my bank account details. The problem was - I hadn't.

I'm now in the process of setting up an iWeb SIPP. The application process is a little protracted, and alas (for some bizarre reason) iWeb enlist AJBell (yes I know) to do the Tax reclaim (and/or the funding part) of it, so the application needed to be done by printing a PDF and filling it in and signing it off etc. I'd have probably found "all online" to have been a little slicker. However, I'm hopeful that the "Cost VS Quality" matrix will be advantageous from my perspective. Have to play it by ear for a bit.

Matt

[1] I note that now - I did tell them eventually why I dropped them - I mentioned the webchat issue to them.

[puffster]

I'm confused, on the iWeb site it states:

"Our SIPP is provided by AJ Bell, one of the leading pension providers in the UK."

In the How to start a SIPP section it says:

"Step 3 – Alternatively you can scan the original signed form and send via email to iwebsipp@sippdeal.co.uk.".

Regards, Puffster

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

I'm confused, on the iWeb site it states:

"Our SIPP is provided by AJ Bell, one of the leading pension providers in the UK."

In the How to start a SIPP section it says:

"Step 3 – Alternatively you can scan the original signed form and send via email to iwebsipp@sippdeal.co.uk.".

Regards, Puffster

I'm putting my feet up now Puffster. But I can certainly spend sometime writing to you tommorow on this thread, to help you out and explain what I did.

Reply if you'd like me to do that.

Matt

[scrumpyjack]

Generally I'm happy to stick with HL as I too do not invest in OEICs or funds/unit trusts and stick to equities, ITs and ETFs.

The share dealing costs are trivial and generally I have found HL very efficient and knowledgeable, the only exception being dealing with estates where they have not been good (8 weeks to get a probate valuation, and then only after chasing, and strictly speaking it was incorrect but I couldn't be bothered to point that out to them).

The other thing with HL that is deficient is that you can't have a US$ cash account, so all dollar dividends (eg VWRL) get converted to sterling automatically, having an fx fee deducted. HL really should sort that out.

They do keep trying to flog financial advice to me but I just ignore that.

[puffster]

I'm putting my feet up now Puffster. But I can certainly spend sometime writing to you tommorow on this thread, to help you out and explain what I did.

Reply if you'd like me to do that.

Matt

No, the moving from AJ Bell to AJ Bell in disguise was my confusion, you seem to know this so enjoy your rest.

Regards, Puffster

[PrefInvestor]

Generally I'm happy to stick with HL as I too do not invest in OEICs or funds/unit trusts and stick to equities, ITs and ETFs.

The share dealing costs are trivial and generally I have found HL very efficient and knowledgeable, the only exception being dealing with estates where they have not been good (8 weeks to get a probate valuation, and then only after chasing, and strictly speaking it was incorrect but I couldn't be bothered to point that out to them).

The other thing with HL that is deficient is that you can't have a US$ cash account, so all dollar dividends (eg VWRL) get converted to sterling automatically, having an fx fee deducted. HL really should sort that out.

They do keep trying to flog financial advice to me but I just ignore that.

Hi scrumpjack, Yes your comments align pretty well with my views expressed in a previous post. I would say that their share dealing charges are now high compared with the competition and I’d like to see them reduced, more like £5 a trade seems more like par for the course elsewhere. Of course if you don’t do many trades then it doesn’t matter. And yes a USD account facility would also be useful, but they always have an eye to making a profit and their FX charges on all transactions involving a foreign currency must make them a packet.

ATB

Pref

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

I'm putting my feet up now Puffster. But I can certainly spend sometime writing to you tommorow on this thread, to help you out and explain what I did.

Reply if you'd like me to do that.

Matt

No, the moving from AJ Bell to AJ Bell in disguise was my confusion, you seem to know this so enjoy your rest.

Regards, Puffster

Kind of. However the dealing side of the SIPP is implemented by iWeb, with their policies regarding order handling (alleviating my earlier LMT + US order issue I had w/ AJBell direct) being the same as any other iWeb account.

Plus the actual team dealing with the iWeb SIPP (iwebsipp@sippdeal) side of things in AJBell are a separate team to those in AJBell proper. I have spoken and emailed a few of them and their have been very helpful, and generally restored my faith in the section of humanity that work in the financial services industry .

Obviously this thing is currently a "work in progress" for me and it does seem a shame that iWeb don't currently offer a nicer portal to SIPP. However the market does seem to constantly change - my earlier investigations into ii and AJB seem to suggest that they both fighting each other over charging w/ both removing drawdown fees over the recent period. Maybe over the time the interfaces will be made more transparent.

I strongly feel that one of the best ways to change things for the better is to continue to feed ideas and comments back to the providers. But as investors we are probably our worst enemies - dividends and excess returns stemming from profits and minimised costs. I see AJ Bell stock (LON:AJB) is currently priced at 47x earnings, so there are presumably 1000s of people (like us) who are keen that these providers pay a keen eye to costs/customers/profits.

Matt

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

I was wondering....do you have your own SIPP with iWeb too?

Yes, and an ISA & dealing account with IWeb too; and also an ISA & dealing account with II.

In regards to the IWeb SIPP, as you're already an IWeb customer you're basically familiar with it all already; the SIPP just appears as another account alongside your ISA & dealing accounts and you operate it in exactly the same way (subject to obvious SIPP restrictions, like you can't move money in or out willy-nilly through the Fund & Withdraw mechanism.)

Out of interest do you scan a printout of the "additional contribution form" and then email it into iwebSipp in order to fund the account?

Matt

[mc2fool]

I was wondering....do you have your own SIPP with iWeb too?

Yes, and an ISA & dealing account with IWeb too; and also an ISA & dealing account with II.

In regards to the IWeb SIPP, as you're already an IWeb customer you're basically familiar with it all already; the SIPP just appears as another account alongside your ISA & dealing accounts and you operate it in exactly the same way (subject to obvious SIPP restrictions, like you can't move money in or out willy-nilly through the Fund & Withdraw mechanism.)

Out of interest do you scan a printout of the "additional contribution form" and then email it into iwebSipp in order to fund the account?

Matt

I only print and scan the signature page. The rest is a PDF form, which I fill in, and then I do a print to PDF of that less the signature page plus the scanned in page to a new PDF which is what I email them.

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

Yes, and an ISA & dealing account with IWeb too; and also an ISA & dealing account with II.

In regards to the IWeb SIPP, as you're already an IWeb customer you're basically familiar with it all already; the SIPP just appears as another account alongside your ISA & dealing accounts and you operate it in exactly the same way (subject to obvious SIPP restrictions, like you can't move money in or out willy-nilly through the Fund & Withdraw mechanism.)

Out of interest do you scan a printout of the "additional contribution form" and then email it into iwebSipp in order to fund the account?

Matt

I only print and scan the signature page. The rest is a PDF form, which I fill in, and then I do a print to PDF of that less the signature page plus the scanned in page to a new PDF which is what I email them.

Thanks mc2fool,

Is that two separate PDFs that you email off, or do you know of a way to form a single PDF from two? If the latter I should probably re ask this in a different board.

Matt

[mc2fool]

Is that two separate PDFs that you email off, or do you know of a way to form a single PDF from two? If the latter I should probably re ask this in a different board.

A single PDF. I use PDFCreator, which lets you create PDFs from any application that has a Print function , including Photoshop (which is what I scan into) and Acrobat itself, and lets you merge the creation from multiple sources into a single PDF.

There are actually lots of PDF combiners around, including online ones, but I've used PDFCreator since Windows XP days and am quite happy with it so have never bothered to investigate any others.