L&G want some money back!

[ouzo]

Earlier this month, after a six-week wait, L&G transferred my pension funds to my SIPP with AJ Bell. Now L&G have emailed AJB saying they'd paid my usual monthly amount in September but somehow forgot to deduct it from the transfer sent to AJB and want it back (£450). I have to give permission to AJB before this can happen.

The only communication I received from L&G during the whole process was a text at the end to say my transfer was complete, and a three-part P45 which arrived in the post last week (no covering letter).

The transfer happened when the L&G fund was up or down by £at least 450 daily. I don't now have access to my L&G transactions to check.

When I started the process in mid-August I asked L&G what I needed to do. The chap I spoke to said that AJB would handle everything but I should wait until after the next monthly payment was received (21 August) to start. Nothing then happened until two or three days after the *next* payment (21 September) and the funds finally arrived in my AJB account on 3 October. I'd assumed this delay was to be clear of the September payment date.

Anyhow, I suppose this is just a bit of a rant really, and me wondering if it's normal for L&G not to speak to their (ex) client at all? I should probably phone L&G too ...

Ann

[wanderer]

No direct experience of this but presumably if you refuse AJB permission to refund to L&G then L&G will write to you directly, if it wishes to recover the money and they don't give up at that point.

Assuming they do write to you then you will have an opportunity through correspondence to determine whether they are correct to ask for the money or not.

Alternatively, they might decide it's not worth the time and effort to try and correct /compound their mistake.

Either way I don't think it's entirely reasonable for them to just pass on their request to AJB and assume by default that you're fine with it; you deserve a little more courtesy than that.

[Gerry557]

You could, not give the permission. Then let them to the running around.

[ursaminortaur]

You could, not give the permission. Then let them to the running around.

If going down that route you would need to be very careful otherwise you could end up in jail under the Theft Act 1968 since this sounds pretty much the same as you keeping money mistakenly paid into your bank account and refusing to pay it back.

https://www.money.co.uk/guides/can-you-keep-money-accidentally-paid-into-your-bank-account

Keeping any money wrongly credited to your account could lead to you being charged with ‘retaining wrongful credit' under the Theft Act 1968.

You could be guilty of an offence if a wrongful credit is made to your account and:

You know the credit has been made incorrectly
You don't take steps to cancel the credit
.
.
.
No matter how tempting it is, don't immediately go out and spend the money. Some people think that if the cash is gone then it’s too late, but in reality, you will be liable to pay it back anyway, even if it’s no longer in your account. This includes:

When a bank or individual accidentally paid money into your account
If you are overpaid by your employer
.
.
.
Typically, you’ll be asked to pay back the cash. You could also be jailed if you splash the cash when you know it’s not yours. According to the Theft Act 1968, the maximum sentence is ten years in prison.

For instance, a woman from Blackburn was sentenced to 10 months in prison after she went on a spending spree, after receiving £135,000 in error from Abbey bank.

[Gerry557]

No I was insinuating that without permission they would have to contact and explain the mistake before it's corrected.

If there is a mistake, then quite happily pay it back.

I wouldn't do so cos a company just said Whoopsie give us some money.

[kempiejon]

No I was insinuating that without permission they would have to contact and explain the mistake before it's corrected.

If there is a mistake, then quite happily pay it back.

I wouldn't do so cos a company just said Whoopsie give us some money.

I see your point. You asked L&G to transfer your account to AJ Bell which they did, transfer all went through OK. You'd entrusted the process to the professionals AJB and L&G now some time after the fact L&G said they made a mistake and you owe us £450.
It is not unreasonable for them to show their working. If they made a mistake last time perhaps they've made another and you should double check.

Last house I bought, after the bills had been paid and settled perhaps 3 months later the conveyancer got in touch, said I owed them a few hundred quid. They'd made an error and could I transfer the funds. They seemed most put out when I asked them to detail exactly how and why they had got it wrong when compiling my bill.

[ouzo]

Thanks for all the comments - it's reassuring to know that it's not unreasonable to be miffed!

I'll definitely challenge them. Looking at the transactions I downloaded before the account closed, I can see that the £450 was deducted on 15 September, for payment on 21 September. The transfer to AJB took place two weeks later, on 28 September (and landed in my account on 3 October).

Ann

[stevensfo]

You could, not give the permission. Then let them to the running around.

If going down that route you would need to be very careful otherwise you could end up in jail under the Theft Act 1968 since this sounds pretty much the same as you keeping money mistakenly paid into your bank account and refusing to pay it back.

https://www.money.co.uk/guides/can-you-keep-money-accidentally-paid-into-your-bank-account

Keeping any money wrongly credited to your account could lead to you being charged with ‘retaining wrongful credit' under the Theft Act 1968.

You could be guilty of an offence if a wrongful credit is made to your account and:

You know the credit has been made incorrectly
You don't take steps to cancel the credit
.
.
.
No matter how tempting it is, don't immediately go out and spend the money. Some people think that if the cash is gone then it’s too late, but in reality, you will be liable to pay it back anyway, even if it’s no longer in your account. This includes:

When a bank or individual accidentally paid money into your account
If you are overpaid by your employer
.
.
.
Typically, you’ll be asked to pay back the cash. You could also be jailed if you splash the cash when you know it’s not yours. According to the Theft Act 1968, the maximum sentence is ten years in prison.

For instance, a woman from Blackburn was sentenced to 10 months in prison after she went on a spending spree, after receiving £135,000 in error from Abbey bank.

But here, it's not a bank account; it's a pension fund and the OP obviously will not go on a spending spree. If the OP has not received a letter from L&G about this, then surely nothing is clear yet, and even when he is officially informed, he could quite easily behave as professionally as any bank and refuse the refund pending further 'Due Diligence, AML checks' etc..etc ad nauseam. Which may take up to a few months or longer.

Steve

PS In doing anything like this with a pension, I wouldn't go anywhere near a phone. In writing only, recorded delivery.

[xxd09]

A mistake is a mistake
Life is full of them
If it’s a “honourable “ mistake -rectify it
If not ask for an explanation
Money and trust are a big part of our functioning society -both sides of a deal have to do the right thing or the whole structure collapses with poor outcomes for everyone
Screwing all parties in this particular deal over £450 would seem to be a possible small gain at the potential likelihood of much more serious damage to a good system ie pension transfers
xxd09

[Bminusrob]

It sounds to me as if you are well out of L&G. However, I don't think it is reasonable for them to as, out of the blue, for money from your new pensionn provider. In your position, I would write to AJB, and ask them to forward your communication to L&G. Basically, asking for money from your pension is not reasonable until they provide you with detailed information about your pension transfer to AJB. With this information, you can look at the figures and try to work out if the figures agree with what they are saying.

[pochisoldi]

Personally, I would tell L&G to talk to AJB.
They don't need your permission to do that - it's part of a process that you authorised when you requested the transfer.

If AJB need your permission to make any payments, then AJB should be asking you to authorise the payment, given that you need to know how that payment is going to be taxed, and how it will affect the taxation of the payments already made this tax year by L&G.

[ouzo]

Morning all. I hate threads that don't have a conclusion, so here's a conclusion (of sorts) to this one!

Basically, I did nothing at all (my usual modus operandi, unfortunately) and there's been no follow up. There was a two-week gap between my final payment from L&G and the proceeds turning up with AJB, so I think L&G just got it wrong.

Here's hoping!
Ann

[jaizan]

My mother was incorrectly asked for a substantial repayment of annuity payments after my father died. The annuity provider got the date of death wrong by 8 months! Not L&G, but it shows how financial service companies make errors that they should not be making.

So don't assume financial service providers can correctly handle basic maths.

Inform them that you would happliy pay the money, AFTER L&G provide a detailed statement for the date of closure plus evidence of overpayment and a calculation to show the repayment sum.

[ouzo]

My mother was incorrectly asked for a substantial repayment of annuity payments after my father died. The annuity provider got the date of death wrong by 8 months! Not L&G, but it shows how financial service companies make errors that they should not be making.

So don't assume financial service providers can correctly handle basic maths.

Inform them that you would happliy pay the money, AFTER L&G provide a detailed statement for the date of closure plus evidence of overpayment and a calculation to show the repayment sum.

Thanks jaizan

I put together the dates and figures in a document at the time. For the moment though I'm inclined to let sleeping dogs lie.

Regards
Ann