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Legatee ID requirements

including wills and probate
Daytona
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Legatee ID requirements

#101666

Postby Daytona » December 5th, 2017, 12:14 am

Can someone point me to the latest ID requirements for solicitors who are distributing estates.

pochisoldi
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#101726

Postby pochisoldi » December 5th, 2017, 8:57 am

A search for "Law society know your client" or "law society money laundering regulations" should give you some pointers.

Note that ID checks are to ensure the right person gets the money/bequest, so it's a case of the solicitor avoiding a negligence action rather than having to meet statutory requirements.

Pochisoldi

gryffron
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#101754

Postby gryffron » December 5th, 2017, 10:21 am

The money laundering regs just says "proof to their satisfaction". They make no suggestion exactly how this is to be achieved.
To avoid a negligence claim, they would need to prove the same, to know they are giving the money to the right person.

The usual method is one photo id (passport or driving licence), and one proof of address (bank statement or printed utility bill).
Of course, some people may have neither of these. In which case it is down to the organisation to decide how you prove it.

Gryff

DrBunsenHoneydew
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#101788

Postby DrBunsenHoneydew » December 5th, 2017, 12:41 pm

For those without the usual ID proofs, alternatives include Benefits Agency (or from other govt dept inc HMRC) official correspondence, Council House rental tenancy agreement, credit card statement and the like.

Daytona
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#101856

Postby Daytona » December 5th, 2017, 6:13 pm

Thank you :)

Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

chas49
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#101896

Postby chas49 » December 5th, 2017, 9:45 pm

Daytona wrote:Thank you :)

Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.


None of which actually prove identity :), though at least the marriage certificate can provide some 'proof' of a name change

melonfool
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102012

Postby melonfool » December 6th, 2017, 9:15 am

chas49 wrote:
Daytona wrote:Thank you :)

Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.


None of which actually prove identity :), though at least the marriage certificate can provide some 'proof' of a name change


If there was a name change of course!

Mel

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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102033

Postby swill453 » December 6th, 2017, 9:50 am

Daytona wrote:Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

Well if she's feeling a bit lazy, she could pay anybody else in the UK to procure that "evidence", perfectly legally, and supply it for her.

Scott.

chas49
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102068

Postby chas49 » December 6th, 2017, 11:03 am

melonfool wrote:
chas49 wrote:
Daytona wrote:Thank you :)

Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.


None of which actually prove identity :), though at least the marriage certificate can provide some 'proof' of a name change


If there was a name change of course!

Mel


Of course. "Mrs chas49" didn't change her name when we got hitched! I was assuming that Daytona's mother had done so - because otherwise there would be no point asking for the marriage cert.

melonfool
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102073

Postby melonfool » December 6th, 2017, 11:18 am

chas49 wrote:
melonfool wrote:
chas49 wrote:
None of which actually prove identity :), though at least the marriage certificate can provide some 'proof' of a name change


If there was a name change of course!

Mel


Of course. "Mrs chas49" didn't change her name when we got hitched! I was assuming that Daytona's mother had done so - because otherwise there would be no point asking for the marriage cert.


I can imagine being called Mrs Chas49 would be most undesirable! But the marriage cert could simply be as a result of how she became a beneficiary I suppose?

Mel

gryffron
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102173

Postby gryffron » December 6th, 2017, 3:50 pm

Daytona wrote:my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

Yes, it is very difficult. For THEM as well as you. The law simply gives no clue to anyone how its terms are to be met. And it is becoming increasingly difficult, for everyone, as more and more stuff goes online.

In addition to things mentioned before. Pension and tax statements. Council issued documents can also be some use. Council tax statement shows residence. Disability passes and bus passes often have a photo. Not as good as the previous mentioned central govt documents, but still some use.

It's a pain, for everyone. But really, all the solicitors can do is ask for as much info as possible to show they have made their best efforts to comply. :(

Gryff

Daytona
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102313

Postby Daytona » December 7th, 2017, 2:37 am

gryffron wrote:The law simply gives no clue to anyone how its terms are to be met.

I can't see any solicitor being sanctioned having met the standard government proof of name & proof of address requirements.

And it is becoming increasingly difficult, for everyone, as more and more stuff goes online.

So if a statement's printed by the company it's valid, but if it's printed by the customer it's not ?!

It's a pain, for everyone. But really, all the solicitors can do is ask for as much info as possible

That's not necessary given the limited ID required by the standard government requirements and it would also breach the Data Protection Act.

I'm wondering if a criminal records check would satisfy the requirement ?

gryffron
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102389

Postby gryffron » December 7th, 2017, 10:45 am

Daytona wrote:
gryffron wrote:The law simply gives no clue to anyone how its terms are to be met.

I can't see any solicitor being sanctioned having met the standard government proof of name & proof of address requirements.

But the point is that there isn't a government standard. The law just says you have to do it. It gives no clue how you should go about it. Every company and govt dept has their own rules for how they interpret the law. Hence the need for law society guidelines as linked by the earlier poster. Yes, they're unlikely to be sanctioned if they follow good practice. But then what are they supposed to do with people who don't have the "standard" documents? Not unusual for the elderly.

So if a statement's printed by the company it's valid, but if it's printed by the customer it's not ?!

Banks and solicitors have always asked me for "original" printed bills as proof of ID. A few other organisations have accepted stuff I have printed at home. Though TBH, I don't see how they would know the difference. With the tech in my house it would take me 30s to produce documentary proof that I am the Queen of England, that would stand up to any of the scrutiny these organisations have put the documents to.
I entirely agree with your point. I can't see that either really helps them to "prove" anything. Since they are so easy to forge.

IMO this is a badly written law that is rapidly becoming counter productive. It is a pain for the legitimate, and negligible protection against the criminal :(
If they want it to work, sooner or later the govt will have to provide some nationally acceptable form of ID.

Gryff

chas49
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102394

Postby chas49 » December 7th, 2017, 10:56 am

Daytona wrote:I'm wondering if a criminal records check would satisfy the requirement ?


Do you mean a DBS certificate for your mother? She can apply through Disclosure Scotland (even if she doesn't live in Scotland), but she will still need to prove her identity to them. She would need to ensure the solicitor will accept this first anyway....

https://www.gov.uk/request-copy-criminal-record

didds
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102540

Postby didds » December 7th, 2017, 5:10 pm

gryffron wrote:
I entirely agree with your point. I can't see that either really helps them to "prove" anything. Since they are so easy to forge.

IMO this is a badly written law that is rapidly becoming counter productive. It is a pain for the legitimate, and negligible protection against the criminal :(
If they want it to work, sooner or later the govt will have to provide some nationally acceptable form of ID.

Gryff


... and the problem there is that Gryff's very valid points wrt forgeries and a pain for the legitimate is true of those IDs. True they won't be as easy (we presume!) to forge as "standard letters" etc - but those o0f a criminal nature will get false ID where they need it.

And such ID will have to be provided free or at incredibly negligible cost - otherwise there will be an underclass of people that don't have them because they cannot afford them, or a sub-class of "criminals" that are crimninalsied for not having them because they can;t afford them etc.

(Back we go to Blair...)

didds

Clitheroekid
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102776

Postby Clitheroekid » December 8th, 2017, 3:05 pm

Identifying people, whether clients or third parties, is the bane of solicitors’ lives. It’s become much more of a problem in recent years due to the ready availability of forged documents and the amazingly high quality of those forgeries. I’ve seen forged passports and driving licences that are completely indistinguishable from the real thing.

I think the time has come for the introduction of a national identity card. Although I don’t personally have any problem with making this compulsory I realise the political difficulties in achieving this, so I’d suggest that it could be introduced on a voluntary basis.

I would very happily pay a fee sufficient to make the exercise cost neutral (which I’d assume would be similar to a passport fee). In return I’d expect to be issued with some form of unique identifier - somewhat like a PIN number - that I could use to prove identity when required to do so. When a person was checking my ID the PIN number would also generate my photo so they could check that at the same time. It might even be possible to use such a system to replace passports.

And pigs might fly! ;)

didds
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Re: Legatee ID requirements

#102797

Postby didds » December 8th, 2017, 4:29 pm

without meaning to derail the thread, let alone appear to be "dissing" CK, a "viluntary" system would end up with those that just accnot afford the costs of a ID card becoming a second class citizen as the ID card become the de facto and "only" accepted ID by not very well trained/informed staff etc, or by lazy organisations. We already read on TLF (and previously TMF) of people having all sorts of issues because they don;t own a passport or drive, despite the lists of acceptable ID being much more involved that just those two.

didds


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