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Appealing littering fine?

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Dod101
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Re: Appealing littering fine?

#444297

Postby Dod101 » September 21st, 2021, 11:41 pm

Lootman wrote:
Dod101 wrote:Apart from littering being anti social (was she littering?)

£100 seems 'way over the top.

As the guy in the video cited above notes, these enforcement officers are often private contractors who collect a percentage of the fine, with the council getting the rest without having to do any work or spend any money.

So this is really a gravy-go-round scheme designed for all the participants of administering "justice" to make some money whilst claiming to hold the moral high ground. The officers are basically bounty hunters who have a financial incentive to ticket people.

Now if my local authority wants to pay me 50% for slapping parking tickets on every car which I see parked illegally, then I could make a very good living since I see illegally parked cars everywhere and the only thing that would limit how many tickets I could issue is how fast I can write. But for some reason it is considered bad form to privatise the citation of parking tickets, but not litter tickets. Why?


I must say you have a good way with words, but you are not far wrong. I am for instance sending my cheque to 'Stirling Council' at an address in Northampton I think it is. Clearly their contractors central collection office.

Dod

mc2fool
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Re: Appealing littering fine?

#444302

Postby mc2fool » September 21st, 2021, 11:56 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzRgCA84br8

This gives a bit more detail on the matter.

John


That chap making the film is just a fully paid up member of the awkward squad and a pain in the fundament.

Try this one I stumbled across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIjB2TzC6D8 ... and in this case it's armed Surrey police he's arguing with ... over which section of the legislation applies to the situation ... :roll:

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Re: Appealing littering fine?

#444326

Postby Arborbridge » September 22nd, 2021, 7:58 am

mc2fool wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzRgCA84br8

This gives a bit more detail on the matter.

John


That chap making the film is just a fully paid up member of the awkward squad and a pain in the fundament.

Try this one I stumbled across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIjB2TzC6D8 ... and in this case it's armed Surrey police he's arguing with ... over which section of the legislation applies to the situation ... :roll:



I just do not comprehend why people behave like this. It's very hard being a policeman or anyone in authority when we have jerks like him around.
As regards the previous clip of the barrack room lawyer with the enforcement officers, I had a thought afterwards. Would I take the advice of some random fanatical cameraman if he started to intervene between me and an EO on the street? How would I know he knew anything sensible about my rights or the law? As we know from websites on investment, taking advice from people who say they know what they are doing can make you a loser :lol:
Frankly, I would suggest that any professional doing that job (particularly if it happened to be a policeman) would know the law - including my rights - rather better than a man with an agenda. The EOs job depends on knowing what he can do and what rights the member of the public has. Not that there aren't badly trained or incompetent EOs, but generally they would not stay long in the job.

So much better to be polite, bend with the wind and move on in life. Some people try to make their lives more difficult than they need be - and it gets them absolutely nowhere. All it does is increase the size of the chip on their shoulder.

Arb.

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Re: Appealing littering fine?

#444328

Postby redsturgeon » September 22nd, 2021, 8:17 am

Moderator Message:
I only included the video to give some wider context to the OP in terms of who these enforcement officers are, their powers and who employs them. There are many similar videos on you tube shot by people challenging various officials, police, traffic warden , TV licence officers etc but discussion of these and the rights and wrongs of each case are outside the scope of this thread. If you wish to start a new one please feel free.

Similarly any opinions on the rights and wrongs of littering etc are off topic here on the legal board.

Please do not post here unless you have something directly relating to the OP's question.

John

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Re: Appealing littering fine?

#445094

Postby 1nvest » September 24th, 2021, 4:43 pm

DEFRA advice is that a notice should only be issued if, after drawing the matter to the person’s attention, they then fail to pick it up. If the officer/council are using it in effect as a means to make capital gains and also inaccurately described the situation (didn't actually drop it on the floor but rather placed it somewhere with the later intent to pick it up again and as such wasn't discarded/waste but instead was a possession) then their motives are questionable, paramount to a fraudulent claim driven by financial motivation.

9873210
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Re: Appealing littering fine?

#445127

Postby 9873210 » September 24th, 2021, 6:55 pm

Arborbridge wrote:Frankly, I would suggest that any professional doing that job (particularly if it happened to be a policeman) would know the law - including my rights - rather better than a man with an agenda. The EOs job depends on knowing what he can do and what rights the member of the public has. Not that there aren't badly trained or incompetent EOs, but generally they would not stay long in the job.

You have an unfounded belief in the professionalism of police officers and their knowledge of the law. I suspect you have never met one or talked to one.

Meeting a police officer in a social setting leaves no question of how awful they, and their training, and their leadership are.

swill453
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Re: Appealing littering fine?

#445130

Postby swill453 » September 24th, 2021, 7:01 pm

1nvest wrote:DEFRA advice is that a notice should only be issued if, after drawing the matter to the person’s attention, they then fail to pick it up.

Reference please?

Scott.

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Re: Appealing littering fine?

#445534

Postby Arborbridge » September 27th, 2021, 10:01 am

9873210 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:Frankly, I would suggest that any professional doing that job (particularly if it happened to be a policeman) would know the law - including my rights - rather better than a man with an agenda. The EOs job depends on knowing what he can do and what rights the member of the public has. Not that there aren't badly trained or incompetent EOs, but generally they would not stay long in the job.

You have an unfounded belief in the professionalism of police officers and their knowledge of the law. I suspect you have never met one or talked to one.

Meeting a police officer in a social setting leaves no question of how awful they, and their training, and their leadership are.


So you would prefer the advice of some random guy with an axe to grind and a camera? I don't think so. THe police have to know the law and the basics of what they can do and cannot do in the context of a public facing role: it's an essential part of their training. A man with a gripe doesn't.

And BTW, I have spoken with policemen, and indeed one happened to be a colleague of mine who retrained to be one.


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