Waste pipes legality for freehold flats

[Patty313]

Citizens Advice Bureau and check your household insurances for a legal helpline - and if the flat comes under a general all building policy ask for legal helpline details off the freeholder who presumably holds that buildings insurance

I agree that this is as much a legal issue as a technical one. You could start by looking at the wording of your lease to establish what it says about responsibility for shared drainage pipes or get someone with a legal understanding to do so for you.

Also be clear on the technical terms. Waste pipes are the small diameter pipes routed from each bath, basin, sink etc. These will likely be the responsibility for keeping free flowing of the flat in which they are located. These waste pipes each connect into a single larger diameter (4") vertical pipe known as a soil stack which will in turn connect into a below ground branch drain. Because the soil stack and branch drain collects drainage from all of the flats waste pipes it will be a shared responsibility to keep that free flowing as will the below ground branch drain which the soil stack discharges in to.

Thanks Dicky99
>>These waste pipes each connect into a single larger diameter (4") vertical pipe known as a soil stack which will in turn connect into a below ground branch drain. Because the soil stack and branch drain collects drainage from all of the flats waste pipes it will be a shared responsibility to keep that free flowing as will the below ground branch drain which the soil stack discharges in to.

Appreciated for stressing the importance of the the different pipes. Learn something new. =)
When I studied the manhole with the builder, each unit has its dedicated hole. I cannot be certain if the washing machine water from upstairs also comes out of the same hole as my washing machine. I did ask the builder to confirm from his test, but he hasn't replied. I think so because the pipe from upstairs goes back into my pipe, which shares the same hole. So that's why I'm interested in understanding if that's compliant to the building regulation for upstairs to be directing their waste pipe into my floor before I broach the subject to suggest diverting their waste else where, and avoid it from entering my flat. Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge with me.

[Crazbe7]

I agree that this is as much a legal issue as a technical one. You could start by looking at the wording of your lease to establish what it says about responsibility for shared drainage pipes or get someone with a legal understanding to do so for you.

Also be clear on the technical terms. Waste pipes are the small diameter pipes routed from each bath, basin, sink etc. These will likely be the responsibility for keeping free flowing of the flat in which they are located. These waste pipes each connect into a single larger diameter (4") vertical pipe known as a soil stack which will in turn connect into a below ground branch drain. Because the soil stack and branch drain collects drainage from all of the flats waste pipes it will be a shared responsibility to keep that free flowing as will the below ground branch drain which the soil stack discharges in to.

Thanks Dicky99
>>These waste pipes each connect into a single larger diameter (4") vertical pipe known as a soil stack which will in turn connect into a below ground branch drain. Because the soil stack and branch drain collects drainage from all of the flats waste pipes it will be a shared responsibility to keep that free flowing as will the below ground branch drain which the soil stack discharges in to.

Appreciated for stressing the importance of the the different pipes. Learn something new. =)
When I studied the manhole with the builder, each unit has its dedicated hole. I cannot be certain if the washing machine water from upstairs also comes out of the same hole as my washing machine. I did ask the builder to confirm from his test, but he hasn't replied. I think so because the pipe from upstairs goes back into my pipe, which shares the same hole. So that's why I'm interested in understanding if that's compliant to the building regulation for upstairs to be directing their waste pipe into my floor before I broach the subject to suggest diverting their waste else where, and avoid it from entering my flat. Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge with me.

"When I studied the manhole with the builder, each unit has its dedicated hole."

I'm sorry that makes little sense if all the flats drain into one soil stack.

From what you are saying each flat has a soil stack apart from the flat above you which discharges into your soil stack.

[Patty313]

From what you are saying each flat has a soil stack apart from the flat above you which discharges into your soil stack.

Precisely, hence I wonder if that’s allowed and created a post here to seek for some helpful opinions and advice. Thanks for your response.

Best
Patty

[mc2fool]

From what you are saying each flat has a soil stack apart from the flat above you which discharges into your soil stack.

Precisely, hence I wonder if that’s allowed and created a post here to seek for some helpful opinions and advice. Thanks for your response.

Best
Patty

The question is more how it gets there. It's absolutely normal for flats where the wet rooms of the flats are directly above and/or adjacent to each other to use the same soil stack.

[Crazbe7]

Precisely, hence I wonder if that’s allowed and created a post here to seek for some helpful opinions and advice. Thanks for your response.

Best
Patty

The question is more how it gets there. It's absolutely normal for flats where the wet rooms of the flats are directly above and/or adjacent to each other to use the same soil stack.

Yes I know, I'm a retired Chartered Civil and Structural Engineer. Which is why I question the accuracy of the statement about the manhole layout.

I assume there is a partial blockage somewhere in the soil stack causing the water to back up. Not having seen any photographs of the external pipework from the flats or any idea if they are part of a converted house or built as flats it is difficult to evaluate the problem.

Crazbe7

[Dicky99]

The question is more how it gets there. It's absolutely normal for flats where the wet rooms of the flats are directly above and/or adjacent to each other to use the same soil stack.

Yes I know, I'm a retired Chartered Civil and Structural Engineer. Which is why I question the accuracy of the statement about the manhole layout.

I assume there is a partial blockage somewhere in the soil stack causing the water to back up. Not having seen any photographs of the external pipework from the flats or any idea if they are part of a converted house or built as flats it is difficult to evaluate the problem.

Crazbe7

Correct. It's a common arrangement for ground floor wc's sinks etc to discharge directly into the chamber (manhole) i.e. each to have their own "hole". However upstairs wc's, sinks, basins etc generally discharge into a shared vertical stack.

A drainage company will very easily determine the drainage layout by opening the chamber and running every sanitary item and observing which "hole" the water flows out from but that requires access to each flat, so cooperation of the neighbours. The freeholder should be arranging this investigation. If they are responsible for keeping the shared drains in good working order and don't, and you suffer damage, they would be liable. Have you checked the wording of your lease?

As stated before, if your sink flooded while you were not there, the blockage must be in a shared soil stack. Furthermore if you are on the first floor the blockage must be below your flat with the water coming from the flat above. Why? Because if the blockage were higher up the stack it would flood the flat above and if the blockage is below ground it would flood the chamber and the ground floor flat. So the blockage will be located in the vertical stack below your sink and above the ground floor flat sink. All this is very routine for a drainage company for figure out.

[Patty313]

Yes I know, I'm a retired Chartered Civil and Structural Engineer. Which is why I question the accuracy of the statement about the manhole layout.

I assume there is a partial blockage somewhere in the soil stack causing the water to back up. Not having seen any photographs of the external pipework from the flats or any idea if they are part of a converted house or built as flats it is difficult to evaluate the problem.

Crazbe7

Correct. It's a common arrangement for ground floor wc's sinks etc to discharge directly into the chamber (manhole) i.e. each to have their own "hole". However upstairs wc's, sinks, basins etc generally discharge into a shared vertical stack.

A drainage company will very easily determine the drainage layout by opening the chamber and running every sanitary item and observing which "hole" the water flows out from but that requires access to each flat, so cooperation of the neighbours. The freeholder should be arranging this investigation. If they are responsible for keeping the shared drains in good working order and don't, and you suffer damage, they would be liable. Have you checked the wording of your lease?

As stated before, if your sink flooded while you were not there, the blockage must be in a shared soil stack. Furthermore if you are on the first floor the blockage must be below your flat with the water coming from the flat above. Why? Because if the blockage were higher up the stack it would flood the flat above and if the blockage is below ground it would flood the chamber and the ground floor flat. So the blockage will be located in the vertical stack below your sink and above the ground floor flat sink. All this is very routine for a drainage company for figure out.

I feel so lucky to come across all experts and kind people in this forum. Thank you.

The builder had run some tests and that's how I'm able to answer some of the technical questions here. I've put these images and videos here that I hope it helps you to understand the layout of the pipe. Sorry I can't find a way to embed the images here.

I think you will have to copy and paste it to the browser. Sorry for any inconvenience caused

The waste pipes from upstairs all route into my flat:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dCm ... hpmZ-L.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FFm ... q8z-X2.png

On a closer look at the waste pipe, i realised it goes back to my flat. I had always thought it travels downstairs to the ground floor:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nXG ... dxw-X2.png

The pipes highlighted in yellow marker are from the wall of my bathroom. They are so skinny and may not help if there's any blockage in the waste stack. They lead to the manhole.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PtS ... P5bX-L.jpg

I annotated the diagram with my understanding of the wastewater flow:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vrq ... cjwZ-L.png

when we ran upstairs' washing machine, the water travelled into the pipe in my bedroom, which is the opposite direction of the manhole. You can see in the video that the water rises before it goes back down. if there's any minor blockage, it won't go back down but travels further back into my kitchen
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hTk ... X-1280.mp4
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qH4 ... G-1280.mp4


updates - I learned that the building was divided into flats in the 70s. I also consulted a builder and he confirmed that it's possible to divert the pipe to the manhole. I proposed the idea to my neighbour. However, the upstairs neighbour insinuates I cause the problem (I've been here for almost 2 years) and that she has never had an issue for 2 decades.

My view is that older buildings are likely to have build-up issues that eventually cause problems. Is it abnormal to have such an issue that I describe in this post?

thanks for your feedback when you have a chance

Best,
Patty

[Patty313]

I agree with BJ - the issue has arisen because of a blockage downstream of your sink, and your sink is the lowest point before the blockage for the water to come back up through.

If this is a new issue (and I'd assume the downstairs neighbour would tell you if it is not) then initial remedy would be 5 min of hot water folllowed by a few doses of proprietry drain unblocker down your sink late one evening. Then the following morning run hot water again then half fill the sink and use a plunger. Note that a plunger works on the UP stroke - pulling the blockage back towards you and often breaking it up so it flos away. Using it on the downstroke can simply compact the blockage.

This obviously does not solve the core issue of poor design and build, in fact I'd be surprised if it conforms to Building Regs (but if the flats are a converted house then a lot of interesting things were done at the time).

Ideally all flats would drain directly to outside, where the drains would empty into a larger soil pipe.

You might want to consider an official complaint/dispute with the upstairs neighbour if this is not sorted ASAP - they would need to declare this to their buyer and could jeapordise the sale.

Paul

Thanks Paul
I don't even know how to file a complaint because when I first moved in, I asked to have an annual management meeting and my neighbours replied they don't do that. We collectively own the building, each has a lease. Since receiving some advice here, I started looking into the paperwork and noticed on the companies house website that I'm not listed as a director. Now I'm unsure if the buyer would even know I exist to uncover this dispute.

[Patty313]

[quote="Dicky99"]

The freeholder should be arranging this investigation. If they are responsible for keeping the shared drains in good working order and don't, and you suffer damage, they would be liable. Have you checked the wording of your lease?


how do I hold them liable? I own part of the building too but I'm not listed as the director of the management company for this building. I've asked them to rectify it. Does it mean I have to involve a solicitor?

I have checked the lease and it doesn't have any wording about the waste stack or pipe

thanks again

Best,
Patty

[mc2fool]

You might want to consider an official complaint/dispute with the upstairs neighbour if this is not sorted ASAP - they would need to declare this to their buyer and could jeapordise the sale.

I don't even know how to file a complaint because when I first moved in, I asked to have an annual management meeting and my neighbours replied they don't do that. We collectively own the building, each has a lease. Since receiving some advice here, I started looking into the paperwork and noticed on the companies house website that I'm not listed as a director. Now I'm unsure if the buyer would even know I exist to uncover this dispute.

Refer back to viewtopic.php?p=664977#p664977

Re directorship: you cannot automatically become a director, although you may have the unrefusable right to become one, if you wish and aren't legally excluded (e.g. for having been bankrupt, convictions for fraud, etc).

If the company is a private company limited by shares then you should be a shareholder, and if it is a private company limited by guarantee then you should be a member. In either case you'll have a vote for, amongst other things, appointing directors. Being a shareholder or member may be automatic or you may have to apply, although in the latter case it's just a formality as it'll be unrefusable.

Your solicitor should have explained all of that to you when you bought the place. They should also have given you a copy of the Memorandum and Articles of Association of the company, which will have the rules about shareholders/members, votes, directors, etc in them. If you can't find them in your binder of stuff from the solicitors look under Filing history in the Companies House entry for the company. If nowhere else you'll find them within the earliest entry, Incorporation, but do look through the lot in case they've been changed since then.

If I understand correctly there are three flats so there will be three shareholders/members and so three votes, so the question then is what is your relationship like with the third one? Are they the person that will be taking over running the company when your upstairs neighbour leaves? Even if you don't get on well with them, when the upstairs buyer arrives they will have a vote so the two of you will be able to appoint yourselves directors, should you wish.

[Dicky99]

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dCm ... hpmZ-L.jpg

There's an awful lot of information here but focusing on two points, those waste pipes are 50mm diameter. It's usual for waste water to be transported vertically to ground level in a 110mm diameter stack pipe so this is a legacy of the original conversion to flats which would be costly and disruptive to rectify after the event. This arrangement simply wouldn't be allowed today.

Added to the skinny diameter of the pipework there are numerous bends on the way down. Combine that with the fats in kitchen waste water and it is predictable that it will periodically block up.

The second point is that your neighbour stated that there haven't previously been any problems in a decade. On your photo link which I've attached I can see two flexible couplings. One below the window and one at the bottom where a new section of white pipework has been inserted. These are evidence of previous blockages where the pipe has had to be cut in order to rod a blockage and then repaired with a rubber coupling. If these were not done during the two years you've been there your neighbour would surely know something about two previous call outs to clear the block pipes?

There are design issues with this drainage installatio
which arent going to go away. Sounds like you and your neighbours need to get together and agree to share the cost for a drainage report to be carried out with recommendations and budget costs.

[Crazbe7]

Correct. It's a common arrangement for ground floor wc's sinks etc to discharge directly into the chamber (manhole) i.e. each to have their own "hole". However upstairs wc's, sinks, basins etc generally discharge into a shared vertical stack.

A drainage company will very easily determine the drainage layout by opening the chamber and running every sanitary item and observing which "hole" the water flows out from but that requires access to each flat, so cooperation of the neighbours. The freeholder should be arranging this investigation. If they are responsible for keeping the shared drains in good working order and don't, and you suffer damage, they would be liable. Have you checked the wording of your lease?

As stated before, if your sink flooded while you were not there, the blockage must be in a shared soil stack. Furthermore if you are on the first floor the blockage must be below your flat with the water coming from the flat above. Why? Because if the blockage were higher up the stack it would flood the flat above and if the blockage is below ground it would flood the chamber and the ground floor flat. So the blockage will be located in the vertical stack below your sink and above the ground floor flat sink. All this is very routine for a drainage company for figure out.

I feel so lucky to come across all experts and kind people in this forum. Thank you.

The builder had run some tests and that's how I'm able to answer some of the technical questions here. I've put these images and videos here that I hope it helps you to understand the layout of the pipe. Sorry I can't find a way to embed the images here.

I think you will have to copy and paste it to the browser. Sorry for any inconvenience caused

The waste pipes from upstairs all route into my flat:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dCm ... hpmZ-L.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FFm ... q8z-X2.png

On a closer look at the waste pipe, i realised it goes back to my flat. I had always thought it travels downstairs to the ground floor:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nXG ... dxw-X2.png

The pipes highlighted in yellow marker are from the wall of my bathroom. They are so skinny and may not help if there's any blockage in the waste stack. They lead to the manhole.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PtS ... P5bX-L.jpg

I annotated the diagram with my understanding of the wastewater flow:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vrq ... cjwZ-L.png

when we ran upstairs' washing machine, the water travelled into the pipe in my bedroom, which is the opposite direction of the manhole. You can see in the video that the water rises before it goes back down. if there's any minor blockage, it won't go back down but travels further back into my kitchen
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hTk ... X-1280.mp4
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qH4 ... G-1280.mp4


updates - I learned that the building was divided into flats in the 70s. I also consulted a builder and he confirmed that it's possible to divert the pipe to the manhole. I proposed the idea to my neighbour. However, the upstairs neighbour insinuates I cause the problem (I've been here for almost 2 years) and that she has never had an issue for 2 decades.

My view is that older buildings are likely to have build-up issues that eventually cause problems. Is it abnormal to have such an issue that I describe in this post?

thanks for your feedback when you have a chance

Best,
Patty

The connection on the right from the upstairs flat looks a real 'botch' job. It shouldn't feed into the pipe work coming from your flat. It should feed directly into the shared downpipe with its own 'T' joint. It is very shoddy work.

Whether the down pipe has sufficient capacity I can't tell.

You shouldn't need to plumb into your soil stack to resolve an issue which isn't of your making. Because your neighbour has lived in the flat for 20 years is utterly irrelevant.

To me this is a maintenance issue on the black pipes. A direct connection with a suitable fall from your neighbours flat into the down pipe is required and possibly a larger diameter down pipe. A drainage specialist could advise.

I've never owned a flat so have no knowledge of how these things get fixed.

Crazbe7

[Crazbe7]

The connection on the right from the upstairs flat looks a real 'botch' job. It shouldn't feed into the pipe work coming from your flat. It should feed directly into the shared downpipe with its own 'T' joint. It is very shoddy work.

Whether the down pipe has sufficient capacity I can't tell.

You shouldn't need to plumb into your soil stack to resolve an issue which isn't of your making. Because your neighbour has lived in the flat for 20 years is utterly irrelevant.

To me this is a maintenance issue on the black pipes. A direct connection with a suitable fall from your neighbours flat into the down pipe is required and possibly a larger diameter down pipe. A drainage specialist could advise.

I've never owned a flat so have no knowledge of how these things get fixed.

Crazbe7

What is feeding into the white pipe fixed into the black pipe on the left hand side from your flat. Is this a drain from a combi boiler?

It looks too small for a dish washer and/or washing machine and the fall on the pipe looks negligible so any volume of water would back up into your flat. That wouldn't happen if it was just a drain for a combi boiler.

Crazbe7

[Dicky99]

The connection on the right from the upstairs flat looks a real 'botch' job. It shouldn't feed into the pipe work coming from your flat. It should feed directly into the shared downpipe with its own 'T' joint. It is very shoddy work.

Whether the down pipe has sufficient capacity I can't tell.

You shouldn't need to plumb into your soil stack to resolve an issue which isn't of your making. Because your neighbour has lived in the flat for 20 years is utterly irrelevant.

To me this is a maintenance issue on the black pipes. A direct connection with a suitable fall from your neighbours flat into the down pipe is required and possibly a larger diameter down pipe. A drainage specialist could advise.

I've never owned a flat so have no knowledge of how these things get fixed.

Crazbe7

What is feeding into the white pipe fixed into the black pipe on the left hand side from your flat. Is this a drain from a combi boiler?

It looks too small for a dish washer and/or washing machine and the fall on the pipe looks negligible so any volume of water would back up into your flat. That wouldn't happen if it was just a drain for a combi boiler.

Crazbe7

That's the condensate pipe for the boiler. That small diameter pipe is no longer permitted externally as in a long spell of very cold weather the condensate may freeze and block the pipe which in turn will result in a sensor shutting the boiler down. Today 32mm is required pipe diameter.

[Patty313]

I feel so lucky to come across all experts and kind people in this forum. Thank you.

The builder had run some tests and that's how I'm able to answer some of the technical questions here. I've put these images and videos here that I hope it helps you to understand the layout of the pipe. Sorry I can't find a way to embed the images here.

I think you will have to copy and paste it to the browser. Sorry for any inconvenience caused

The waste pipes from upstairs all route into my flat:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dCm ... hpmZ-L.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FFm ... q8z-X2.png

On a closer look at the waste pipe, i realised it goes back to my flat. I had always thought it travels downstairs to the ground floor:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nXG ... dxw-X2.png

The pipes highlighted in yellow marker are from the wall of my bathroom. They are so skinny and may not help if there's any blockage in the waste stack. They lead to the manhole.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PtS ... P5bX-L.jpg

I annotated the diagram with my understanding of the wastewater flow:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vrq ... cjwZ-L.png

when we ran upstairs' washing machine, the water travelled into the pipe in my bedroom, which is the opposite direction of the manhole. You can see in the video that the water rises before it goes back down. if there's any minor blockage, it won't go back down but travels further back into my kitchen
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hTk ... X-1280.mp4
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qH4 ... G-1280.mp4


updates - I learned that the building was divided into flats in the 70s. I also consulted a builder and he confirmed that it's possible to divert the pipe to the manhole. I proposed the idea to my neighbour. However, the upstairs neighbour insinuates I cause the problem (I've been here for almost 2 years) and that she has never had an issue for 2 decades.

My view is that older buildings are likely to have build-up issues that eventually cause problems. Is it abnormal to have such an issue that I describe in this post?

thanks for your feedback when you have a chance

Best,
Patty

The connection on the right from the upstairs flat looks a real 'botch' job. It shouldn't feed into the pipe work coming from your flat. It should feed directly into the shared downpipe with its own 'T' joint. It is very shoddy work.

Whether the down pipe has sufficient capacity I can't tell.

You shouldn't need to plumb into your soil stack to resolve an issue which isn't of your making. Because your neighbour has lived in the flat for 20 years is utterly irrelevant.

To me this is a maintenance issue on the black pipes. A direct connection with a suitable fall from your neighbours flat into the down pipe is required and possibly a larger diameter down pipe. A drainage specialist could advise.

I've never owned a flat so have no knowledge of how these things get fixed.

Crazbe7

Hi Crazebe7, thanks for your response. I suggested having a diversion of the waste pipes from upstairs. However, they said their preferred builder claimed the blockage was traced back from my flat and therefore, it's my duty to perform a cleaning of my pipe every 6 months. Or, I have to do an overhaul of pipework on my floor because it's not done well. The email states that a diversion that I proposed will not help with the repeated blockage.

I was shocked by the reply and the lack of accountability. Even if the blockage is from my floor, I still think the diversion would help. Or Am I wrong?

I did respond that I prefer the preventive method, which is to divert. I'm still waiting for a response. Their builder again quoted a cost of 4x more than the builder of my goddaughter's father. This is utterly ludicrous.

I am truly grateful for yours, and everyone's feedback and advice here. Thanks.

Best,
Patty

[mc2fool]

I suggested having a diversion of the waste pipes from upstairs. However, they said their preferred builder claimed the blockage was traced back from my flat and therefore, it's my duty to perform a cleaning of my pipe every 6 months. Or, I have to do an overhaul of pipework on my floor because it's not done well. The email states that a diversion that I proposed will not help with the repeated blockage.

I was shocked by the reply and the lack of accountability. Even if the blockage is from my floor, I still think the diversion would help. Or Am I wrong?

I did respond that I prefer the preventive method, which is to divert. I'm still waiting for a response. Their builder again quoted a cost of 4x more than the builder of my goddaughter's father. This is utterly ludicrous.

Yes, it is. They need to make their minds up: is the problem in your pipe or is it a communal pipe?

If it is your pipe then you are free to choose your builder and also free to stop their water going into your pipe. (Where would the water go if you simply disconnected the bottom of the white section, where it enters your flat, and it flowed into the gully below your Juliet balcony?)

OTOH if it is a communal pipe then the cost of whatever is done has to be shared (equally) between the three flats, and if that cost will come to more than £250 per flat then the "landlord" (freehold company) must go through a section 20 consultation with the lessees, which, amongst other things, has to be informed to the upstairs flat's buyer.

[Crazbe7]

The connection on the right from the upstairs flat looks a real 'botch' job. It shouldn't feed into the pipe work coming from your flat. It should feed directly into the shared downpipe with its own 'T' joint. It is very shoddy work.

Whether the down pipe has sufficient capacity I can't tell.

You shouldn't need to plumb into your soil stack to resolve an issue which isn't of your making. Because your neighbour has lived in the flat for 20 years is utterly irrelevant.

To me this is a maintenance issue on the black pipes. A direct connection with a suitable fall from your neighbours flat into the down pipe is required and possibly a larger diameter down pipe. A drainage specialist could advise.

I've never owned a flat so have no knowledge of how these things get fixed.

Crazbe7

Hi Crazebe7, thanks for your response. I suggested having a diversion of the waste pipes from upstairs. However, they said their preferred builder claimed the blockage was traced back from my flat and therefore, it's my duty to perform a cleaning of my pipe every 6 months. Or, I have to do an overhaul of pipework on my floor because it's not done well. The email states that a diversion that I proposed will not help with the repeated blockage.

I was shocked by the reply and the lack of accountability. Even if the blockage is from my floor, I still think the diversion would help. Or Am I wrong?

I did respond that I prefer the preventive method, which is to divert. I'm still waiting for a response. Their builder again quoted a cost of 4x more than the builder of my goddaughter's father. This is utterly ludicrous.

I am truly grateful for yours, and everyone's feedback and advice here. Thanks.

Best,
Patty

Unless their builder has visited your flat he has no knowledge of the state of your pipework and cannot claim that any blockage is your responsibility. They are trying it on. They must know that the current remedy of feeding from the flat above into your pipework is a very poor solution. Your pipework was designed for your flat, not for two flats. They must know that.

How do they explain why a direct connection from the above flat won't work? Ask them to be a specific as they can be. You do have access through TLF to a few people who can comment on their response.

Interesting point on if it is a communal pipe. The downpipe shouldn't be classified as 'your' pipe as it serves two flats.

Are you paying into a maintenance pot?

Crazbe7

[Patty313]

Unless their builder has visited your flat he has no knowledge of the state of your pipework and cannot claim that any blockage is your responsibility. They are trying it on. They must know that the current remedy of feeding from the flat above into your pipework is a very poor solution. Your pipework was designed for your flat, not for two flats. They must know that.

How do they explain why a direct connection from the above flat won't work? Ask them to be a specific as they can be. You do have access through TLF to a few people who can comment on their response.

Interesting point on if it is a communal pipe. The downpipe shouldn't be classified as 'your' pipe as it serves two flats.

Are you paying into a maintenance pot?

Crazbe7

Hi Crazbe7, thanks. Yes he has, and he straight up stated that it was poorly done, too bendy. I crawled inside under the sink to inspect it this weekend and it doesn't look the most straight forward thing. I did consult someone today and he doesn't think that's the issue.
You all gave me the pointers to identify the communal vs. my pipe and either way, they should still address the poorly designed waste pipe. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome, and hopefully, this post can help someone else too.

thanks

[Patty313]

Are you paying into a maintenance pot?

Crazbe7

sorry I missed this. No, I asked when I moved in and they said there's no such thing. =(

[Patty313]

I suggested having a diversion of the waste pipes from upstairs. However, they said their preferred builder claimed the blockage was traced back from my flat and therefore, it's my duty to perform a cleaning of my pipe every 6 months. Or, I have to do an overhaul of pipework on my floor because it's not done well. The email states that a diversion that I proposed will not help with the repeated blockage.

I was shocked by the reply and the lack of accountability. Even if the blockage is from my floor, I still think the diversion would help. Or Am I wrong?

I did respond that I prefer the preventive method, which is to divert. I'm still waiting for a response. Their builder again quoted a cost of 4x more than the builder of my goddaughter's father. This is utterly ludicrous.

Yes, it is. They need to make their minds up: is the problem in your pipe or is it a communal pipe?

If it is your pipe then you are free to choose your builder and also free to stop their water going into your pipe. (Where would the water go if you simply disconnected the bottom of the white section, where it enters your flat, and it flowed into the gully below your Juliet balcony?)

OTOH if it is a communal pipe then the cost of whatever is done has to be shared (equally) between the three flats, and if that cost will come to more than £250 per flat then the "landlord" (freehold company) must go through a section 20 consultation with the lessees, which, amongst other things, has to be informed to the upstairs flat's buyer.

thanks so much mc2fool for sharing the link and the cost reference, very helpful for my case!