Girlfriends new job enforcing me rules about how and what to trade

[Spet0789]

Thanks for all the replies!

I am surprised that the need for compliance by a PCA came as a surprise to her. I would expect the need for compliance to be spelled out in her employment contract.

Employment contract just mentioned the condition to comply with the account dealing policies, which she got hold of later in a compliance training.

Your GF is being very mature and forthcoming by identifying you as her civil partner or equivalent. This indicates - to me at least - that she takes her duties as an employee very seriously, and that she takes her relationship to you similarly seriously.

Yes, she is. All of this is true, although I don't think you can assume all of this from this situation. In this case she is just taking care of her and her career.

Your GF could suggest to her employer that they pay the costs of your moving to another broker? That is a perfectly reasonable compromise.

It is reasonable, but is it done like this in practice as well? Like someone mentioned we are just tiny cogs in a big uncaring machine...

I suppose there could be many circumstances where a husband/wife (or other connected person) of an employee might not want to give their other half who is the employee the information (as they maintain separate financial lives), but understand that their employer needs to see it.

Exactly! That is what made me "angry". We keep all of our finances separately, I did not know her salary until we applied for the mortgage. We always split everything evenly 50-50. We never talk about our salaries, and we always keep everything straight to the penny! This strict separation is all her life mantra and I'm ok with it, but it can be annoying. Like she wants to pay for things separately so that she does not own me anything or the other way around...but I guess this is more of a relationship than legal issue

Professional firms don't simply tell their new employees to go home and instruct their partners that they need to give a list of etc etc... There will be a internal document which sets it all out in detail. I understand that the OP is angry about this, but I suggest it would be useful to get hold of the document, study it, and do what it requires to the letter (and don't do anything it doesn't specifically demand). There has been a lot of useful advice on this thread but all responders are in the dark as to what the OP's girlfriend firm is actually specifying.

As others have said, find out what the rules are. Your partner should have been issued with an employee manual or handbook which outlines the rules.

It is one of the top investment banks and yes I did get hold of the document, but imagine the irony, it says it is for internal use only. It is a more than 10 page document and a separate list of accepted brokers. My GF already had to close her Vanguard account, because it is not on the list. The other restrictions are about the holding period, margin accounts, CDF, spread betting, private investments...everything forbidden or only allowed with preclearance. But this does not bother me that much. What bothers me are the fees for moving the money between platforms, selling the actual assets, and moving from a recommended platform to one with higher fees.

A potential problem can also be a SIPP pension plan because you can do some trading there as well. I have one of those from my previous employer. And it just gives me an idea that they can't operate with a zero tolerance policy, because I couldn't change my pension plan if I was still working for them!?

Speaking from personal experience, these rules are generally aimed at trading in single stocks. Funds and ETFs are typically exempt. Any SIPP, ISA or other investment account that can only hold collective investments (Vanguard for example) may well be exempt.

[didds]

but if you are likely to be hit by capital gains tax, they should pay that.

wouldn't that then be in effect an income for the OP ie somebody else has paid the tax owed by the OP? Which would then be taxable (CF PAYE) ? (albeit on a reduced amount than the CGT) ?

didds

[sg31]

For those who find the concept of seperate finances strange, how do you buy each other presents without what you spend showing in a joint account?

The concept that would be a problem strange is strange to me. If my wife bought me a present and I saw an entry for it on our statement it would have no interest for me. If I really wanted to know it would be easy enough these days to Google it and find a price range but I never have.

When we married my wife and I pooled our finances and it's just one big pot we both dip into as required. If we want to make a substantial purchase we mention it and agree it before proceeding purely as a courtesy. It helps that neither of us is are spendthrifts.

[Urbandreamer]

For those who find the concept of seperate finances strange, how do you buy each other presents without what you spend showing in a joint account?

The concept that would be a problem strange is strange to me. If my wife bought me a present and I saw an entry for it on our statement it would have no interest for me. If I really wanted to know it would be easy enough these days to Google it and find a price range but I never have.

The order of events can often be that the money goes out before it is spent or the gift given. My wife has often commented about her workmates being surprised about the spending of their other half during December. For some reason it doesn't seem to occur to them why they might be spending more than usual!

Different people different ways.
I'm not sure that we could live like this reporter, but I do know that my attitude to money and risk is entirly different to my wifes.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jo ... 34341.html

It’s nobody’s problem but my own if I rack up a huge bill on a poorly judged wine habit, and given that my husband seems to have invested his income in esoteric cryptocurrencies I’m quite glad I know nothing about it anyway.

[didds]

For those who find the concept of seperate finances strange, how do you buy each other presents without what you spend showing in a joint account?

I/We don't find it "strange" - we know this is a very common arrangement. We share everything, but then we both come from a background where our parents shared everything so its the norm for us. As for "checking" - well, TBH its pretty obvious how much anything costs ... either because it has the price displayed on it in a non removable manner (eg theatre tickets), or one has a pretty good idea what the cost is anyway.

The one area of strictly 50/50 independent finances such as described by the OP I have been aware of with others that I am not sure how it "works" is where one partner has to either decline sharing something because they cant really afford it (ie they are the lower earner) or one partner doesn't do the things they would really like to do to enable the other to participate. eg holiday in the Seychelles versus a holiday in Marbella (because the lower earner cannot afford it).

didds

[vrdiver]

Different people different ways.
I'm not sure that we could live like this reporter, but I do know that my attitude to money and risk is entirly different to my wifes.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jo ... 34341.html

It’s nobody’s problem but my own if I rack up a huge bill on a poorly judged wine habit, and given that my husband seems to have invested his income in esoteric cryptocurrencies I’m quite glad I know nothing about it anyway.

When Mrs VRD and I moved in together, we pooled our finances. Doesn't matter who earned it, it belongs to both of us.

When we spend, it's by mutual consent and to an agreed budget-and-savings plan. If Mrs VRD buys a pair of shoes, all I do is log them against the "clothes" budget (and make a note to compliment her on her new shoes when she wears them). If the clothes budget is in danger of overrun, I'll mention it (because I do the budgeting) and we will review whether to adjust the budget (spend less on clothes going forward, less on other things to make more cash available for clothes, reduce savings target etc etc). It works as a no-surprises household budget, helped in large part by having records of previous years actual spending, so being creatures of habit, it's actually pretty easy to manage.

We have some mutual hobbies (diving) and some individual. There is a "hobby" budget, but not a his-hobbies or her-hobbies category; it's not about equal spending but about equal opportunity to pursue what we want to do. Ditto the other categories.

For those who keep finances separate, do you have different lifestyles? Does the higher earner get treats, holidays, etc. that their partner doesn't? I'm genuinely curious as to how such separate arrangements play out in day-to-day living?

VRD

[Watis]

For those who keep finances separate, do you have different lifestyles? Does the higher earner get treats, holidays, etc. that their partner doesn't? I'm genuinely curious as to how such separate arrangements play out in day-to-day living?

As a 'pooler' myself, it has always struck me as awkward when a colleague, having bought a lunchtime sandwich for their partner, then has to let their partner know how much they owe them!

Watis

[Lootman]

For those who find the concept of seperate finances strange, how do you buy each other presents without what you spend showing in a joint account?

Easy. We have a shared account for joint expenditures, like the house or the cars.

And we also each have individual accounts.

I do wonder how it would be handled in countries where married couples have to submit a joint tax return, but of course that isn't the case in the UK.

[Garless]

For those who keep finances separate, do you have different lifestyles? Does the higher earner get treats, holidays, etc. that their partner doesn't? I'm genuinely curious as to how such separate arrangements play out in day-to-day living?

Simple, when we go abroad it goes on my higher limits cards, she keeps a note book of all expenses and transfers the money, cheque at first now by phone transfer for her half. We know what is shared expenses, so when I had to work away from home I paid the flat's service charge and she paid utilities. Both well paid though which made it easier.

[vrdiver]

For those who keep finances separate, do you have different lifestyles? Does the higher earner get treats, holidays, etc. that their partner doesn't? I'm genuinely curious as to how such separate arrangements play out in day-to-day living?

Simple, when we go abroad it goes on my higher limits cards, she keeps a note book of all expenses and transfers the money, cheque at first now by phone transfer for her half. We know what is shared expenses, so when I had to work away from home I paid the flat's service charge and she paid utilities. Both well paid though which made it easier.

Yes, I get the shared expense and each paying their half. What I don't get is what happens to the excess money? If both parties are earning the same (or roughly the same) it may not be an issue, but if one is earning twice what the other is, then does the higher earner just spend that on whatever they want or what?

I can see how such a system would be convenient if you wanted to do stuff without your partner knowing, but excluding "the secret life of..." aspects, how do you deal with the imbalance?

[Urbandreamer]

For those who keep finances separate, do you have different lifestyles? Does the higher earner get treats, holidays, etc. that their partner doesn't? I'm genuinely curious as to how such separate arrangements play out in day-to-day living?

VRD

I really didn't mean to drag the thread off topic, so I'll stop after this post.

Different people in different circumstances adopt different ways. The MoneyAdvice service has a lot to say on the subject. For some pooling income into a joint account works great. For others it doesn't. For some, one of them is on a allowance as they have no income (at least according to that site).

The girlfriend at the time, and I started off splitting the bills, having seperate accounts and a joint account for the common good. As time has progressed our contributions to the common pot have changed. When she was on maturnity leave, obviously I paid many of the bills and even ensured that she had spending money (though we had budgeted and saved).

However once the bills are paid, are there not other things that each and all should do individually? What of emergency "running away" money? What of those who don't share hobbys? Are not shoes or handbags an expensive hobby for some? What of charitable gifts? Should I be contributing to the wifes church. It's not my religion but it is important to her, indeed many religions suggest a tythe of 10%.

To a certain extent, yes, the wife and I do have different lifestyles. I work 5 days a week, she works 4 and is considering reducing that to 3. I'm looking forward to retiring and am putting the financial effort in to ensuring that I can at 60. She claims that she would like to retire, however reading between the lines has no intention of doing so early. We are both fortunate enough to have enough money to do what we want with the surplus.

Finally, yes I did once pay and send her on holiday without me. It was a sewing/craft holiday and I would have definatly not enjoyed it. She has often sugested that I go on a skiing holiday without her as she has a bad knee and doesn't like flying. Of course while we work and have limited free time we would rather holiday together, but why not enjoy our different interests if time were not the issue?

We both agree that it's our differences that make us work well together rather than what we have in common.

As to what I do with the extra income from that extra day that I work, well I invest it. I did say that I wanted to retire early didn't I.

[swill453]

As a 'pooler' myself, it has always struck me as awkward when a colleague, having bought a lunchtime sandwich for their partner, then has to let their partner know how much they owe them!

My wife and I are "poolers" in everything - we wouldn't have been able to retire (together) so early if we weren't. My brother and his wife aren't - she retired at least 2 years before his planned retirement date (and I'm pretty sure they could have afforded for him to retire if they "pooled").

Also makes it a tad awkward buying rounds of drinks. I buy a round with our money, bro buys a round then sis-in-law insists it's her turn. So I have to insist on buying two in a row. (My wife acting queen-like and not carrying cash).

Scott.

[sg31]

I wonder if age is relevant to pooling. When we married in 1981 it seemed to be the norm to pool finances (maybe class/wealth is relevant). My nephews don't pool with their partners but then again there seems to be a limit of 5 years on any of their relationships.

[Spet0789]

Mrs Spet and I have a different arrangement. We share responsibilities evenly. I am responsible for putting money into our joint account. She is in charge taking money out of it. At least that’s how it feels sometimes.

[uspaul666]

I’ve worked for several investment banks in the past and as long as the investments are collective investments, there has been no requirement to even list let alone report any accounts, as Spet0789 suggests. I’d double check the exact requirements before getting in a fuss.

[swill453]

Offcourse It made me really angry, and we have constant arguments since then, because she is blaming me she will be fired because of me and my UK Vanguard account, which is one of the brokers I'm using, but it is not on her approved list.

Maybe it's not on the approved list of brokers because it's not a broker. In their Ts & Cs (https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/cont ... s-2019.pdf) they say "We will publish details annually of our execution results and the principal broker(s) upon which we rely."

Scott.

[moorfield]

Offcourse It made me really angry, and we have constant arguments since then, because she is blaming me she will be fired because of me and my UK Vanguard account, which is one of the brokers I'm using, but it is not on her approved list.

That's a shame, and shortsighted if I may say so. Take the opportunity reflect on your long term financial objectives together, and focus on what you can do, even it seems simple and dull (eg. tracker?), rather that what you can't. You might well end up surprising yourself in the future. Also consider the other benefits that your girlfriend should have - most investment banks dish these out - private (bupa) health cover, travel insurance and a generous pension contribution for starters.

Every cloud and all that .....

I am subject to connected person rules too, and have to get my SIPP, ISA, wife's SIPP, ISA, childrens SIPPs trades approved - but these are all HYP/FTSE350 shares and get waved through. Also permitted to use spread betting accounts for rolling long positions on FTSE350 shares.

[hiriskpaul]

Offcourse It made me really angry, and we have constant arguments since then, because she is blaming me she will be fired because of me and my UK Vanguard account, which is one of the brokers I'm using, but it is not on her approved list.

That's a shame, and shortsighted if I may say so. Take the opportunity reflect on your long term financial objectives together, and focus on what you can do, even it seems simple and dull (eg. tracker?), rather that what you can't. You might well end up surprising yourself in the future. Also consider the other benefits that your girlfriend should have - most investment banks dish these out - private (bupa) health cover, travel insurance and a generous pension contribution for starters.

Every cloud and all that .....

I am subject to connected person rules too, and have to get my SIPP, ISA, wife's SIPP, ISA, childrens SIPPs trades approved - but these are all HYP/FTSE350 shares and get waved through. Also permitted to use spread betting accounts for rolling long positions on FTSE350 shares.

Most of the time trades will be waved through, subject to conditions such as time limits. Occasionally though part of the bank may be working on something that will materially impact the price of a security when announced, such as a bid, major disposal, debt restructuring, etc. On those occasions a compliance department will likely issue a blanket ban on trading a company's shares or bonds. They will not make a song and dance about the ban, just turn down any requests to trade and not give a reason.

[dealtn]

Occasionally though part of the bank may be working on something that will materially impact the price of a security when announced, such as a bid, major disposal, debt restructuring, etc. On those occasions a compliance department will likely issue a blanket ban on trading a company's shares or bonds. They will not make a song and dance about the ban, just turn down any requests to trade and not give a reason.

Well I guess it depends on the institution but I suspect that's a "might" not a "will". That would certainly be my experience. A competent compliance department (again from experience I grant that maybe an oxymoron) would look at the existence of Chinese walls, and which side of it any individual was. This isn't just for the sake of some puritanical wish to do the right thing by any individual, but also to protect against the kind of "I wonder what's going on with company X..." type discussion you get when a "blanket ban" is discovered.

[hiriskpaul]

Occasionally though part of the bank may be working on something that will materially impact the price of a security when announced, such as a bid, major disposal, debt restructuring, etc. On those occasions a compliance department will likely issue a blanket ban on trading a company's shares or bonds. They will not make a song and dance about the ban, just turn down any requests to trade and not give a reason.

Well I guess it depends on the institution but I suspect that's a "might" not a "will". That would certainly be my experience. A competent compliance department (again from experience I grant that maybe an oxymoron) would look at the existence of Chinese walls, and which side of it any individual was. This isn't just for the sake of some puritanical wish to do the right thing by any individual, but also to protect against the kind of "I wonder what's going on with company X..." type discussion you get when a "blanket ban" is discovered.

Yes, you are right. Might rather than will. I have seen a wide variety of restrictions. In one place there were many restrictions that came and went and it was rarely clear why the restrictions were in place, so you could not really conclude that something big was happening.

In another bank, trading anything other than collective funds and gilts was banned all the time and I was not even an employee. They even got upset when they found out I was a company director and had not declared it - director of a company supplying services to the bank, so hardly something I was trying to conceal!