Probate, dealing with difficult sister

[didds]

IANAL

That last suggestion seems easy. send a new letter withall requirements in it and a new two week date.

That way OS is presumably covered.

didds

[GoSeigen]

Background reminder: Father dies Jan 2007. Younger sister is executor; older sister powers reserved. Relationship between sisters is strained so minimal communication. Partial cash distribution was paid in Sept 2017. As of June 2018, no further progress, executor appears to be using estate to control younger sister. Outstanding amount is >£100,000.

Quick update: Late Aug 2018 the executor informed her sister that their late father's house sale had completed in July and additional inheritance tax paid. As of that date all the estate assets would have been in cash in the executor's account with no debts outstanding.

The executor then asked how her sister wanted to receive her share. Bank account details were promptly furnished. Since then, with long intervening delays, the sister has been informed that "the executor's account cannot be operated online, how should the payment be made?" Sister promptly replied "I'm happy getting my share the same way you get yours". And several weeks later there is still no payment and no news.


The dragging out of this whole affair is excruciating, every step appears calculated to force the sister to respond in some kind of bizarre power game. Seems the tax man could be easily and swiftly paid but the beneficiaries have to wait indefinitely....

If anyone has bright ideas as to how to get the final distribution done, we'd love to know.


GS

[staffordian]

The response "I'm happy getting my share the same way you get yours" seems a little vague; I'd have thought a simple "please send me a cheque, together with a copy of the estate accounts, and let me know when I can expect it" would have been a more constructive reply, and sending that sort of request now might be worth a try.

[didds]

I wondered if the waiting sister was concerned about cheques being able to be nullified and monies then having to be returned or something vague stirring in my brain.

In which case a bankers draft may suffice?

didds

[didds]

Ha!

In cash please. Lets meet at the bank branch to receive the money.

waiting sister has already opened an account with the same bank in anticipation so straight in to the new account. no carrying wads of cash around as a result.

didds

[Clitheroekid]

In an ideal world the executor sister would have sent the other one a copy of the estate accounts for approval and signature, followed by the payment.

However, the main priority is to obtain payment, and as I suspect no estate accounts have been prepared you don't want to give her an excuse for even further delaying the payment while she prepares the estate accounts.

I would therefore advise the sister simply to write as staffordian has suggested, requiring payment of the residual share immediately by cheque, and asking for the estate accounts as soon as they're ready, so that they can be followed up at a later stage.

(Incidentally, I can see no reason why the account can't be operated online, but it's not worth arguing about).

[production100]

(Incidentally, I can see no reason why the account can't be operated online, but it's not worth arguing about).

It may be that she is referring to the limit placed on transactions because of money laundering regulations (typically with some accounts you can only transfer £10,000 at a time). If the amount is large then this would make it difficult - although not impossible - to transfer in £10,000 lumps.

Chris

[GoSeigen]

The response "I'm happy getting my share the same way you get yours" seems a little vague; I'd have thought a simple "please send me a cheque, together with a copy of the estate accounts, and let me know when I can expect it" would have been a more constructive reply, and sending that sort of request now might be worth a try.

Hmm, seemed a good idea at the time, to head off the expected "I haven't got a cheque book for the account so can't do it that way. What do you want me to do now?".

I wondered if the waiting sister was concerned about cheques being able to be nullified and monies then having to be returned or something vague stirring in my brain.

"

Not so much, she is not dishonest, more that sending a cheque by post would be too much trouble, and going to the bank terribly inconvenient as she has to work and a has busy family -- there is form.

So we felt that doing her share and her sister's together might be a good solution, not expecting it to take weeks!

In cash please. Lets meet at the bank branch to receive the money.

I'll suggest it but sister might not relish the 3 hour round trip to possibly be verbally abused and come back empty handed! (Last time they met, the younger [executor] sister brought along their father's ashes and announced they would be burying them then and there; when the older sister objected, wanting her children to be involved, she was verbally abused, understandably got upset and returned home whereupon younger sister buried the ashes regardless.)

Sorry, veering into Comfort Cafe territory here, helps to vent the frustrations. This game has been played between these sisters for decades and breaking out of it is a challenge... Very much appreciate your replies, thank you all.


GS

[GoSeigen]

In an ideal world the executor sister would have sent the other one a copy of the estate accounts for approval and signature, followed by the payment.

However, the main priority is to obtain payment, and as I suspect no estate accounts have been prepared you don't want to give her an excuse for even further delaying the payment while she prepares the estate accounts.

Exactly her thoughts, yes.

I would therefore advise the sister simply to write as staffordian has suggested, requiring payment of the residual share immediately by cheque, and asking for the estate accounts as soon as they're ready, so that they can be followed up at a later stage.

(Incidentally, I can see no reason why the account can't be operated online, but it's not worth arguing about).

Quite, she does not intend to argue such minor points; the aim was to minimise the possible objections and get the payment out of the way.

The sister has previously stated that "I don't need my share, I wouldn't know what to do with it, so I don't see why you should want yours now." It's hard to move things along against that sort of attitude.

Thanks Clitheroe, the suggested letter looks like a reasonable course of action, plus plenty of patience!!


GS

[Lootman]

(Incidentally, I can see no reason why the account can't be operated online, but it's not worth arguing about).

It may be that she is referring to the limit placed on transactions because of money laundering regulations (typically with some accounts you can only transfer £10,000 at a time). If the amount is large then this would make it difficult - although not impossible - to transfer in £10,000 lumps.

I am not aware of any "limit" on amounts being transferred, and have certainly made transfers well in excess of that amount myself. The only issue was (I believe) that transfers of more than £10,000 get reported (as probably do many transfers of £9,999!).

Likewise I can withdraw more than £10,000 in cash as well.

Do you have a reference for this limit?

[genou]

Do you have a reference for this limit?

it depends how you transfer the money. Most banks will have per diem limits on card and branch transactions, and faster payments usually tops out at 100K ( http://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about- ... ransaction ) . There is always CHAPS of course, but given the executrix's attitude.....

[Lootman]

Do you have a reference for this limit?

it depends how you transfer the money. Most banks will have per diem limits on card and branch transactions, and faster payments usually tops out at 100K ( http://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about- ... ransaction ) . There is always CHAPS of course, but given the executrix's attitude.....

I realise that each bank can set its own rules and limits about money transfers, just like they can restrict withdrawals. For instance I used to have an account that only allowed 3 withdrawals per month. Some time deposits do not allow withdrawals at all.

My point was more that there is not an over-riding money-laundering restriction on withdrawals and transfers, that I know of. Any such limits and restrictions are more a policy decision - generally accounts with a higher interest rate are more restrictive. But that is marketing not regulatory.

And I have certainly transferred more than 100K in one go.

[GoSeigen]

Let's stay on topic please. The point is not about transfer limits or whether an account can be operated online or not. If you think so you are not fully understanding the circumstances.

The aim is to get things done against the objections of someone just aiming to be difficult, to provoke a response or to punish for some perceived misdemeanor. The precise excuse used doesn't matter too much: we have no interest in arguing any point, no matter how justified we might be, merely to persuade this executor. We are just trying to navigate through the work and encourage her to complete it in a reasonable time and with minimal grief.

Thanks for your understanding.

GS

[bruncher]

Is anyone in a position to ask the sisters if they would agree to mediation?

[GoSeigen]

Is anyone in a position to ask the sisters if they would agree to mediation?

That's a very good suggestion which I think might have been appropriate if it were not for the very happy news that the beneficiary sister has now received a cheque for the full amount of the required distribution, plus a copy of the accounts. It's a great relief for her.

Thank you for the input from this board over recent months -- patience and a go-softly approach succeeded in the end. I'm not sure whether the cajoling sped up the process but I think it was important that the executor was kept aware of her sister's interest and concerns.



GS