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court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

including wills and probate
jazzfestival
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court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133682

Postby jazzfestival » April 21st, 2018, 8:13 am

Would anyone have any experience to enlighten me on what's involved in going to court to force 3 beneficiaries to sell to other 3 beneficiaries ?

Very far out of my depth here .

And apologies ,I feel I'm always "taking" on this forum and not contributing . :oops: :oops: :oops:

jazzfestival
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133683

Postby jazzfestival » April 21st, 2018, 8:15 am

Should perhaps add that I'm asking on behalf of 2 of those threatened with being forced to sell.

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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133684

Postby jazzfestival » April 21st, 2018, 8:23 am

And that one of the other 3 beneficiaries is a minor .

johnhemming
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133686

Postby johnhemming » April 21st, 2018, 8:55 am

To suggest anything on this people would really need to see all the court papers. The danger is that any summary of the case misses out key facts which means that people cannot really help properly.

jazzfestival
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133692

Postby jazzfestival » April 21st, 2018, 9:26 am

I'm not aware of any court papers .

I guess they would filed by the slcr seeking the court order ."the other side" so I guess won't be sharing them with us


At the moment it's a threat by the other side if we are not able to resolve the issue by 29th day of April, 2018, we will be forced to go to court for directions and for an Order that X,Y and Z buy out the interest of the remaining three, regrettably, with costs to the estate.

The delay has been in obtaining a valuation of the land in question ."The other side" wanted us to accept a figure with nothing other than their word to support it .After a year and repeated requests they provided a document .We said we wanted an independent valuation ,they said we must provide funds upfront for this as the estate was without funds .

jazzfestival
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133717

Postby jazzfestival » April 21st, 2018, 11:10 am

johnhemming I completely take your point ,but could you offer any advice at all ?

For instance what criteria would a court use when deciding to grant an order ?

If the beneficiaries have to sell how is the value of the land decided ?

pochisoldi
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133728

Postby pochisoldi » April 21st, 2018, 12:03 pm

You haven't actually told us what the bone of contention is here.

Do the beneficiaries being asked to sell want to hold onto the land or not, or are they simply scared of being ripped off?
Are both "sides" aware of each other's intentions?
If they disagree regarding the value have they got their own valuation done so they can put in a counter offer?

This is important, because if there is a misalignment between the two sides, then money will be wasted, lawyers will make more money, and everyone walks away feeling disgruntled.

There is a strong possibility that the threat of legal action is an attempt to get the ball rolling, I suspect that one or more of the beneficiaries are sitting on its hands wondering what to do, whilst the others are thinking "Come on, lets get this sorted out!". Legal action is the last resort, not the first resort and some face to face conversation is required here, walking away with an agreement for each "side" to do something to bring both sides closer together when they meet up again in a week's time. (A one hour conversation between 6 adults in a pub would probably cost around £8 a head, that's £48 for drinks. A one hour of a solicitors time will cost over £150 and you probably won't even get an instant coffee).

PochiSoldi

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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133737

Postby PinkDalek » April 21st, 2018, 1:27 pm

pochisoldi wrote:You haven't actually told us what the bone of contention is here. ...


I'm guessing here but prior threads from jazzfestival on TLF (and elsewhere) give some background on a parcel of land in Nevis:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2119

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8788

Which suggests that, as per the OP, jazzfestival et al don't want to/will not stump up funds for an independent valuation.

jazzfestival
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133744

Postby jazzfestival » April 21st, 2018, 2:44 pm

Sorry ,no intention to withold details ,just floundering around and not sure what's relevant .

I'd post under a different user name if I was attempting to confuse .

Yes there is concern about being ripped off .
Yes there's disagreement over paying for an indep valuation ,but we have accepted that our side will have to pay . Difficulty has arisen because if we're paying we'd like the valuation carried out by someone we approach as opposed to a firm chosen by the "other side" .And it's proving tricky to find someone .

This ^has^ taken time but we have been taken unawares by the concept of going to court .If the threat is just to speed things up I can understand that .

johnhemming
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133776

Postby johnhemming » April 21st, 2018, 6:09 pm

jazzfestival wrote:johnhemming I completely take your point ,but could you offer any advice at all ?

For instance what criteria would a court use when deciding to grant an order ?

If the beneficiaries have to sell how is the value of the land decided ?

Oddly enough I have just come back from playing jazz at a beer festival.

The problem is that you have a dispute and anyone giving any advice really needs to understand the nature of the dispute.

Many court proceedings offer on the basis of the joint appointment of an expert. What is best, of course, is to agree the valuation of land through negotiation. If it is an unusual plot then that can be harder, but I have in disputes agreed values based upon the Zoopla figure.

jazzfestival
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133784

Postby jazzfestival » April 21st, 2018, 6:38 pm

Wow ! What instrument do you play?

Thanks for replying ,I understand what you're saying .

It is ,as I imagine these things often are ,complicated .The land is in Nevis .Which follows British law .

The SRA have just started investigating the executor ( one of the beneficiaries ) who is a solicitor .The executor is using a friend in Nevis to sort out this part of the estate . We feel outnumbered and have little trust .

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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133788

Postby johnhemming » April 21st, 2018, 6:57 pm

There do tend to be more problems with the legal system in smaller countries. Nevis may have a system based upon English common law principles etc to start out with, but I would think together with St Kitts they have their own laws. I have glanced at their parliament online and they do seem to pass their own legislation.

It strikes me that finding a solution via agreement is your best bet. If you live in the UK and are trying to take legal action in St Kitts it could be quite a bit of hassle, but a lot depends upon the amounts of money you are disputing and how high a proportion of the issue it is.

I was playing keyboards today, but I have performed as a drummer (Heavy Metal and Punk in the 1970s) and guitarist in the past and once did a bit for Newsnight on a chromatic harmonica.

jazzfestival
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133869

Postby jazzfestival » April 22nd, 2018, 9:31 am

What talent !

Just to say ,it's not "our side" trying to take legal action . And we'd be happy to talk and reach an agreement .

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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#133876

Postby johnhemming » April 22nd, 2018, 9:44 am

jazzfestival wrote:Just to say ,it's not "our side" trying to take legal action . And we'd be happy to talk and reach an agreement .

Which, of course, requires anyone advising you to look through your communications in writing and any notes of any conversations. Make sure you keep notes of any conversations.

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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#134465

Postby gnawsome » April 24th, 2018, 3:13 pm

jazzfestival wrote:What talent !

Just to say ,it's not "our side" trying to take legal action . And we'd be happy to talk and reach an agreement .

My suggestion would be that each side write down a price at which they would be prepared to BUY OR SELL, turn papers over and the higher bidder is commited to pay that price.
Individual reasons for wanting to buy or sell are out of discussion - there is only a price.
If you really want it be prepared to pay
If you don't want it be prepared to sell
Just don't expect to have your cake and eat it

jazzfestival
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#134504

Postby jazzfestival » April 24th, 2018, 5:34 pm

The problem really is that our side would prefer not to sell .To retain their interest . But I'm guessing that's not allowed - it has come as a surprise that we can be forced to sell .

Ignorance and naviety .

But I can see why there is provision for this ,otherwise it's just stalemate and neither side can develop the whole plot .

In a situation like this ,piece of land ,no buildings,all beneficiaries holding equal share and 50% of them wishing to buy the other half out who don't wish to sell - how does anyone have their cake and eat it ? I don't understand the relevance of the comment .

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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#134515

Postby staffordian » April 24th, 2018, 6:36 pm

jazzfestival wrote:The problem really is that our side would prefer not to sell .To retain their interest . But I'm guessing that's not allowed - it has come as a surprise that we can be forced to sell .

Ignorance and naviety .

But I can see why there is provision for this ,otherwise it's just stalemate and neither side can develop the whole plot .

In a situation like this ,piece of land ,no buildings,all beneficiaries holding equal share and 50% of them wishing to buy the other half out who don't wish to sell - how does anyone have their cake and eat it ? I don't understand the relevance of the comment .

If the other party want to sell, it's presumably because they want cash not land. And you want to keep the land.

Is there any prospect of agreeing a value, then you buying out the other party, maybe at a slight discount as this would presumably save agent fees etc?

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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#134523

Postby jazzfestival » April 24th, 2018, 7:07 pm

The other side want to buy . Our side don't want to sell .
If we'd known that there was a process to force us to sell we might have investigated raising the money and making the other side an offer .
But I think we're probably out of time !

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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#134533

Postby johnhemming » April 24th, 2018, 7:54 pm

The law is that of St Kitts and Nevis which may be based upon English Law originally, but is not the same as English and Welsh Law. You really do need someone who understands that particular jurisdiction and any quirky behaviour there may be.

jazzfestival
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Re: court order re land allowing 3 beneficiaries to buy out other 3

#134534

Postby jazzfestival » April 24th, 2018, 7:58 pm

Yes that would be great .

But every firm I've contacted here in the UK and on St Kitts /Nevis have all said they can't help/not responded .

Some have dallied a while before declininmg .


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