Parking Notice Help Required

[katkaland]

Hello Lovely Helpers,
Where do I stand legally?

I went on a business trip to Nottingham and parked in a signposted carpark at 10:55, called Pemeberton St Car Park. The machine swallowed £2 of my cash saying it had an error. I paid again and this time managed to pay the full price of £5 and I got my daily ticket for the car-park, which I clearly displayed on my car's dashboard. My ticket lasted until 22:55. When I returned around at 16:00, I found a Penalty Charge Notice placed on my windscreen right above the clearly displayed ticket. (About 1.5 hrs later I was already in a different city, having a drink with a friend with a receipt and picture to prove it.)

The car park was spread over on both sides of the street, with clear signs for the play and display ticket system. I parked the car on one side and paid at the available ticket machine on the other side of the street.

Upon my return, I saw a workman’s car near where I parked, and I noticed that the workman is opening a fence, behind which there was another ticket machine. This was neither visible to me before nor physically accessible when I entered the car-park. As the workman opened the fence at 16:00-ish, this ticket machine become accessible and visible to me. On my return, I made a video showing the car-park tariff sign next to where I parked. The workman was also captured on the video.

The car-park signs clearly stated to me that this is the same car-park with the same tariff on both sides of the street, as the tariff signs were looking the same where I paid and where I parked. If it was not the same car-park then not only it was deliberately misleading, but one of the machines were physically inaccessible.

This PCN was from a private parking company called CPS Midlands Ltd (Management & Enforcement). It was not from the council. On the ticket, I can see the handwriting stating the site title of the PCN as "Pemberton St" I wrote a complaint to the company in which I said, "I parked at the Pemberton St car park at such and such date etc..." I explained in the letter, that I believe the PCN was in error and I accept their apologies, otherwise, I am prepared to take the matter further. I attached the photocopy of my purchased parking ticket to this letter and sent it to them with recorded delivery. I displayed my car-registration and my name as Ms Surname, as well as I, gave them my postal address.

They then sent me a letter back saying: "You failed in your appeal to confirm you were the driver if you wish to CPs midlands to consider a drivers appeal, complete the form overleaf and return within the specified time indicated thereon.” They say overleaf that unless I sign their form that I was the driver and send it back within 14 days, they will proceed with the PCN. They are also asking for my full postal address, business address, and e-mail address, but unclear in their wording about this.

Firstly, I was complaining to them because I clearly paid for the parking. Secondly, they did not give me their e-mail address or phone number and I don’t think they have the right to get these details from me. Finally, I am unsure if at all I am obliged to communicate with them further. Or if made a mistake to even communicate with them in the first place.

I am a free-lance starting out a brand-new business to try to make ends meet as my husband have not worked for 2 years. We are not on and have never been on benefits because I am confident I will make ends meet. As a result, my time is extremely precious and if this company wants to take me to court I would want to claim lost income and various costs in having to deal with them.
Where do I stand legally? Am I even obliged to reply to them?

My husband had something similar in a different city and they eventually threatened him with bailiffs. I would prefer to avoid a court case or bailiffs. However, I paid for my ticket and not prepared to pay for this unlawful fine. I believe I am not liable to do this.
Can you help me? I am looking for a fast and effective way to get them off my back without paying for their proposed unlawful fine.

Many thanks
Katkaland

[katkaland]

Redsturgeon, thank you for your help to move my post here.

[redsturgeon]

Redsturgeon, thank you for your help to move my post here.

No problem, glad you found it.

The main resource on the web for this type of thing is pepipoo

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

There is a specific appeals process you must go through but it sounds to me like you should be fine.

Any fast payment discount is frozen while you go through the process.

You will probably receive more answers here too.

Good luck

John

[redsturgeon]

Here is the direct link to POPLA who manage the appeals.

https://popla.co.uk/poplahowto

John

[GoSeigen]

Here is the direct link to POPLA who manage the appeals.

https://popla.co.uk/poplahowto

John

Unfortunately CPS Midlands Ltd seem not to use POPLA. The advice seems to be to ignore their threats as they are not particularly litigious. You likely have a good case too -- ridiculous to try to extort money from you merely for using the machine over the road instead of a slightly closer obscured one. Keep all your evidence safe and collect any more that you might need if they do try it on.


Here's a previous thread about them:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112246


GS
P.S. I am not knowledgeable about this topic, just passing on what I've read.

[katkaland]

Thank you GS.
It seems that I must appeal according to link you sent me http://www.parkingappeals.info/check_the_ata.html , however, because they are not a BPA approved operator, as I see in your other link http://britishparking.co.uk/BPA-Approved-Operators within http://www.parkingappeals.info/check_the_ata.html, does this meant it is best to ignore all their letters from now on? Indeed they have not provided me with a 10 digit number as mentioned at https://popla.co.uk/poplahowto that they should do.

Do you think it is worth to stop communicating with them in future and ignore all letters (but keep them on file)?
And what about if they proceed down the line of a court case? Will it not be too late to start communicating with them then?
Thanks, K

[kiloran]

This may give you some ideas:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/sh ... ?t=5581529

and there's a bunch of others here: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cps+m ... e&ie=UTF-8

--kiloran

[dspp]

I withstood action in a similar case several years ago, when I was also dirt poor, in the right, and time poor.

From memory my experience was:

1. Stand your ground, always deal by post, keep copies, be courteous.
2. You won't get your time paid for, but you can try. To do this state the value of your time, and in each letter present them with a running bill. In the first couple of letters put them on notice that you will do this if they continue to harass you for more than (say) two letters.
3. Make the point firmly that you consider this to be harassment.
4. I cannot recall, as I don't have the file to hand, but I think I finally resolved the case by issuing them a letter before action re my taking them to the small claims court. At that point they backed down.
5. Don't use the telephone lines.

Unfortunately I lost my time, but kept my money. These people are scum.

regards,
dspp

[didds]

so are they saying that you shouldn't have used the parking machine on the opposite side of the ro9ad ?

or that you didn't have ticket at all?

didds

[gryffron]

Hi K,
I don't think you should ignore them. Looks bad on you in the unlikely event it does go to court.

Just keep replying with the same letter repeating your case and counter claims for (accumulating) damages.

Gryff

[dspp]

Yes, it is critical to never ignore a letter. Always respond with a counter letter, listing previous correspondence (it is easy to just list it and keep adding to the list), and ditto for accumulating time and counter-costs. And always cite harassment. After a few letter issue a letter before action to shift it to small claims court.

regards, dspp

[redsturgeon]

Redsturgeon, thank you for your help to move my post here.

Hi kat,

How are you getting on with this.

I notice you having been clicking the thumbs up "thanks" button a few times. Are you trying to find what it does?

If you just click it once then you have thanked the other user. If you click it again you take the thanks away.



John

[katkaland]

First, thank you to all of you, Redsturgeon, GoSeigen, Kiloran, Dspp, Didds, Gryffron, to try to help me. You are all amazing people, thank you.

I will answer to your post below here. If any of you may know a litigation solicitor who could give me a few good terms to use that would be appreciated. I saw on the Moneysaving expert’s link about challenging the grounds of parking on a particular land, but in their case, it was already a court case for them. Maybe I can leave stuff like that for later, should it go to court.

Kiloran, I have already read those threads previously, but they are different from my case. Although they do indicate the bad reputation this company has.

Dspp, you are right, I should invoice them for running damages and give them notice before taking them to small claims court, perhaps for not only harassment but for an unfair penalty charge notice too. I sent my first letter by recorded delivery and will carry on doing do.

Didds, they are not saying anything like that. What they are saying is “You failed in your appeal to confirm you were the driver, if you wish CPS Midlands Ltd to consider a drivers appeal, complete the form overleaf and return within the specified time indicated thereon.” Overleaf they are asking me to provide my full name to them (up to this point I have not done so) and they are telling me I have 14 dayd to send their form back including details of me such as, I quote them: “(Print Private Address, E-mail, Business address and Box Numbers not accepted)” and they are prompting me to sign and date their letter. I do not feel obliged to send their form back. I already stated to them in my letter to them the following, I quote from my letter: “I parked at the Pemeberton St Car Park…” Therefore, as far as I am concerned I have already told them that I was the driver. In the letter, I confirm all the details of my parking and I sent them a photocopy of my paid ticket. Also, on their PNC they say “Parked without displaying a valid ticket/permit” and they named the area of parking “Pemberton St”. The ticket I purchased says Pemberton St Car Park.

Gryff and Dspp, Yes I thought it was perhaps best to stand my ground, as if I don’t it may look bad, in case if it goes to court. And I am not in the wrong. I did not only pay for the parking ticket, but I overpaid by 40%. And like Dspp said I will start charging for damages.


Best,K

[katkaland]

"

Redsturgeon, thank you for your help to move my post here.

Hi kat,
How are you getting on with this.
I notice you having been clicking the thumbs up "thanks" button a few times. Are you trying to find what it does?
If you just click it once then you have thanked the other user. If you click it again you take the thanks away.
John

"

Hi John, yes I was testing. Thank you for looking out for me. I am learning. I am a sporadic Fool user. Actually, I feel that I like to give back too when I have some time. Before my career change, I have been a business consultant doing various projects, mainly with dental clinics. Although I am not a dentist I know an awful a lot about dental treatments and problems. So I will have a look if there is anybody struggling with such problems.
K

[Sunshine123]

Hi,
I have received a parking ticket from the same car park on Pemberton St and am now being threatened with court action.
Please could you let me know what the outcome
was for you?? I hope it was a positive one

[GoSeigen]

Hi,
I have received a parking ticket from the same car park on Pemberton St and am now being threatened with court action.
Please could you let me know what the outcome
was for you?? I hope it was a positive one

Hi Sunshine123, and welcome to Lemon Fool.

I see you have posted on an old thread and are just looking for feedback from the OP. Just a couple of points which might help in using the forum: first, being a stale thread, the OP is more likely to notice your post if you use the "Quote" facility, which results in a notification being sent to the poster you are quoting, like this:

I will answer to your post below here. If any of you may know a litigation solicitor who could give me a few good terms to use that would be appreciated. I saw on the Moneysaving expert’s link about challenging the grounds of parking on a particular land, but in their case, it was already a court case for them. Maybe I can leave stuff like that for later, should it go to court.

Second, if you only want a response from the OP that's fine, but if you also need help with your query it would be best to start a new thread and post all the details of your case. You can start a new thread by clicking the Forum title, "Legal Issues (Practical)", at the top of this page and then clicking the "New Topic" button.


Good luck sorting out your ticket.

GS