Police powers

[Nemo]

Does anyone know how much information the police can find out about someone suspected of a financial offence but not under arrest

Thanks

[Lootman]

Does anyone know how much information the police can find out about someone suspected of a financial offence but not under arrest

Asking for a friend?

I would think they could find out the same as they could about any other "person of interest". And that would depend on how careful or careless the person has been with his personal and financial information, his public presence on social media and the internet, and how loose his lips have been with people he interacts with whom the police might question.

Although I am not aware of any reason why the police would suspect me of anything, I have by nature always been extremely circumspect with my personal information. This includes always being anonymous on the internet, not being on the electoral roll or council tax records, and using a post office box for all my post. I am very proud of the fact that even if you knew my full name you would discover almost nothing from a Google search. I try it regularly.

I regard the right to privacy as paramount and the benefits of that far exceed any benefit that might be gained by being difficult to track down or be seen through by third parties.

[malkymoo]

Does anyone know how much information the police can find out about someone suspected of a financial offence but not under arrest

Although I am not aware of any reason why the police would suspect me of anything, I have by nature always been extremely circumspect with my personal information. This includes always being anonymous on the internet, not being on the electoral roll or council tax records, and using a post office box for all my post.

How about your driving licence? DVLA do not accept PO boxes.

[Slarti]

Does anyone know how much information the police can find out about someone suspected of a financial offence but not under arrest

Thanks

Experian etc will give them loads of financial info just for asking.

Banks, I think need a warrant.

Slarti

[Nemo]

Asking for a friend?

Strangely enough yes

A friend has his own business and it appears that his bookkeeper/accountant has developed a gambling habit. In 2018 along she seems to have lifted over £25k in cash from him.

The police are taking an interest (but very slowly). He suspects that she has run bills up at casinos on credit cards and has paid these cards with his money. If the police get hold of her statements, they will have a good case against her, but if she doesn't volunteer the statements and denies having this account then what can the police do?

The police are going to make an arrest sometime (they may have already done so) so this should strengthen their hand, but just wondered how they would go about this.

[JonE]

... using a post office box for all my post. I am very proud of the fact that even if you knew my full name you would discover almost nothing from a Google search.

Just as a note of historical interest, it used to be the case that a simple 'phone call would reveal the name and address behind a PO Box. I'd used that myself and was surprised how many boarders had no prior knowledge when I posted that info on TMF some years back (by which time this service was being down-played and no longer specifically featured on their website although the service's 'phone number still worked).

Royal Mail no longer dishes out private addresses behind PO Boxes to all enquirers so individuals may now use a PO Box for some privacy - but it comes at a price way beyond the 50-odd quid a year I remember it reaching and certainly not now worth my while as the only letter-post to my actual address nowadays is from DWP (2pa), HMRC (1pa) and a magazine publisher. Perhaps suppliers other than Royal Mail can provide better deals for some individuals.

By the way, I'm not convinced that being 'undiscoverable' by web-search actually means anything very much in practice. Preferable to being highly exposed but not really a massive deal in itself for a moderately sensible person (and I speak as a 100% 'undiscoverable').

Cheers!

[Lootman]

Does anyone know how much information the police can find out about someone suspected of a financial offence but not under arrest

Although I am not aware of any reason why the police would suspect me of anything, I have by nature always been extremely circumspect with my personal information. This includes always being anonymous on the internet, not being on the electoral roll or council tax records, and using a post office box for all my post.

How about your driving licence? DVLA do not accept PO boxes.

That assumes that DVLA know it is a proxy address. It might be obvious for a Royal Mail POB, but not for a private one.

... using a post office box for all my post. I am very proud of the fact that even if you knew my full name you would discover almost nothing from a Google search.

Just as a note of historical interest, it used to be the case that a simple 'phone call would reveal the name and address behind a PO Box. I'd used that myself and was surprised how many boarders had no prior knowledge when I posted that info on TMF some years back (by which time this service was being down-played and no longer specifically featured on their website although the service's 'phone number still worked).

Royal Mail no longer dishes out private addresses behind PO Boxes to all enquirers so individuals may now use a PO Box for some privacy - but it comes at a price way beyond the 50-odd quid a year I remember it reaching and certainly not now worth my while as the only letter-post to my actual address nowadays is from DWP (2pa), HMRC (1pa) and a magazine publisher. Perhaps suppliers other than Royal Mail can provide better deals for some individuals.

Yes, a private POB comes with various advantages over a Royal Mail POB, including the ability to receive packages and sign for them, fax services and mine will even answer the phone in my name although obviously I do not choose that option. In fact it is more like a personal office than a POB.

Again, the RM may require your "real" address but a private service does not. They just know me by sight and hand over my post when I stop by. For all they know my name may not be accurate, and they know nothing about me other than what is obvious from the post they receive for me.

[chas49]

.... I have by nature always been extremely circumspect with my personal information. This includes always being anonymous on the internet, not being on the electoral roll or council tax records, and using a post office box for all my post. I am very proud of the fact that even if you knew my full name you would discover almost nothing from a Google search.

How are you achieving "not being on... council tax records"? Are you not liable to council tax?

[Lootman]

.... I have by nature always been extremely circumspect with my personal information. This includes always being anonymous on the internet, not being on the electoral roll or council tax records, and using a post office box for all my post. I am very proud of the fact that even if you knew my full name you would discover almost nothing from a Google search.

How are you achieving "not being on... council tax records"? Are you not liable to council tax?

My wife registered with the council and filled in the form. We pay the full rate rather than the "single occupant" rate, but my name is not on the form as a resident.

[AJC5001]

Again, the RM may require your "real" address but a private service does not. They just know me by sight and hand over my post when I stop by. For all they know my name may not be accurate, and they know nothing about me other than what is obvious from the post they receive for me.

Presumably you pay in cash for this service?

What happens when you cannot 'stop by'? Due to accident, illness, dementia or death for example? How do your descendants, executors etc find out about anything sent to you by post?

Adrian

[Lootman]

Again, the RM may require your "real" address but a private service does not. They just know me by sight and hand over my post when I stop by. For all they know my name may not be accurate, and they know nothing about me other than what is obvious from the post they receive for me.

Presumably you pay in cash for this service?

What happens when you cannot 'stop by'? Due to accident, illness, dementia or death for example? How do your descendants, executors etc find out about anything sent to you by post?

My wife and children know about the post box service.

It's not an attempt at complete secrecy and anonymity; merely a privacy device - placing an extra obstacle between third parties and the ability to easily find out information about me.

[Peanutte]

Not the Police so not directly relevant to the original question.

About four years ago, one of my tenants was accused of fraud. The DWP believed (correctly) that her boyfriend was living with her - she was claiming as a single parent. She was invited in by the DWP for an interview under caution. She told me that they produced all the boyfriend's bank statements and information about his car. (Whether this latter was from DVLA, or from the local council from whom he had obtained a parking permit, I don't know.) But it wasn't the boyfriend who was being investigated - and he wasn't actually related to her - but they had still obtained his information.

The more recent incident was at the Credit Union - where I am a volunteer. We received a letter from the DWP seeking information about all the accounts held by one of our members. The letter quoted the regulations under which they were entitled to receive this information from us - I presume a bank would be under a similar obligation.

Certainly in TV dramas the police seem to obtain bank account and credit card transactions, and information about phone use. It happens so often, surely it can't be made up.

[chas49]

.... I have by nature always been extremely circumspect with my personal information. This includes always being anonymous on the internet, not being on the electoral roll or council tax records, and using a post office box for all my post. I am very proud of the fact that even if you knew my full name you would discover almost nothing from a Google search.

How are you achieving "not being on... council tax records"? Are you not liable to council tax?

My wife registered with the council and filled in the form. We pay the full rate rather than the "single occupant" rate, but my name is not on the form as a resident.

However, you are, I think, jointly liable for paying the bill so I wonder if this is actually allowed?

[Lootman]

How are you achieving "not being on... council tax records"? Are you not liable to council tax?

My wife registered with the council and filled in the form. We pay the full rate rather than the "single occupant" rate, but my name is not on the form as a resident.

However, you are, I think, jointly liable for paying the bill so I wonder if this is actually allowed?

Well in theory if four tenants live in the same house then they might all be jointly liable for the council tax but in practice as long as the Council gets its money it is not going to care. I personally do not understand why a council thinks it has any right to know who lives in a home as long as the tax gets paid.

[Nemo]

Thanks Peanutte

I just wonder if 'the authorities' have powers to access HMRC's database. This is based on a programme called Connect and has been very successful for HMRC:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/return/ ... does-have/

The article suggests that Connect has just been deployed in 2017 when, in fact, it has been going for much longer than this and has been subject to constant upgrades.

[chas49]

My wife registered with the council and filled in the form. We pay the full rate rather than the "single occupant" rate, but my name is not on the form as a resident.

However, you are, I think, jointly liable for paying the bill so I wonder if this is actually allowed?

Well in theory if four tenants live in the same house then they might all be jointly liable for the council tax but in practice as long as the Council gets its money it is not going to care. I personally do not understand why a council thinks it has any right to know who lives in a home as long as the tax gets paid.

I don't disagree that in practice they don't care who pays. However, if whoever is currently paying stops paying for whatever reason, they need to know who else is liable. Obviously your wife is a fine upstanding person and fully intends to keep paying, but the councill can't (and shouldn't) assume that, should they?

[Dod101]

My wife registered with the council and filled in the form. We pay the full rate rather than the "single occupant" rate, but my name is not on the form as a resident.

However, you are, I think, jointly liable for paying the bill so I wonder if this is actually allowed?

Well in theory if four tenants live in the same house then they might all be jointly liable for the council tax but in practice as long as the Council gets its money it is not going to care. I personally do not understand why a council thinks it has any right to know who lives in a home as long as the tax gets paid.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, my Council, and I suppose all Councils give a discount when there is only one occupant, and in some cases, even that occupant is exempt (if for instance he/she is a full time student). So the Council in this case needs to know the status of someone living at an address, and obviously needs to know that if someone is claiming they live alone, that they actually are. Obviously, if the full Council Tax is being paid it will not matter to them how many people live at the address.

Dod

[PinkDalek]

Unless I am misunderstanding you, my Council, and I suppose all Councils give a discount when there is only one occupant ...

To obtain a single person discount it first needs to be claimed. Lootman is saying no such claim is made with regards to the property concerned.

[Dod101]

Unless I am misunderstanding you, my Council, and I suppose all Councils give a discount when there is only one occupant ...

To obtain a single person discount it first needs to be claimed. Lootman is saying no such claim is made with regards to the property concerned.

I know because I claim, but Lootman was writing I thought in general terms not specifically his situation.

Dod

[Lootman]

Unless I am misunderstanding you, my Council, and I suppose all Councils give a discount when there is only one occupant ...

To obtain a single person discount it first needs to be claimed. Lootman is saying no such claim is made with regards to the property concerned.

I know because I claim, but Lootman was writing I thought in general terms not specifically his situation.

Yes, for the purpose of computing the correct council tax, the council only needs to know the number of (non-student) adults living in the property and the name of who will pay it.

So the form they send my wife every year to declare the names of everyone who lives here is a government overreach in my view. As long as the correct tax is paid it is none of their business who lives in our house. I regard it is as a Big Brother intrusion into our privacy.

Note also that if you don't want to be on the electoral roll, then putting a name down on the council list may well raise a query. Theoretically it is illegal not to be on the electoral roll although it doesn't seem to be enforced, thankfully.

Both these rules are attempts at knowing who lives where, and one can take the view that is an unreasonable line of inquiry.