AleisterCrowley wrote:Many thanks for replies to date;
modellingman wrote:The advice you have received from Go Seigen and pochisoldi appears pretty sound to me.
The situation on deposit protection for deposits taken before April 2007 (when the deposit protection regulations came into force) was clarified by the Deregulation Act 2015. Essentially, the Act gave landlords/agents a 90 day window (which has long since passed) to protect any such deposits they held. If they didn't do this at the time then the only way that a valid Section 21 notice can be issued to you is for your deposit to be returned in full to you.
I didnt know that, so thanks for pointing it out.
The Shelter site says: "Your landlord doesn't have to protect your deposit if you've had a periodic (rolling) assured shorthold tenancy since before 6 April 2007
But if they want to give you a section 21 notice to end your tenancy they must
protect or return your deposit" - my empasis
So, the protection option isn't availble now >
SUDDEN THOUGHT- perhaps the agency did protect the deposit within the window available? Are they not supposed to inform me though> How do I check?
Apologies, I think I got it slightly wrong. The 90-day window applied in those cases where the deposit was taken before 6 April 2007 and the tenancy went periodic
after that date, so not your situation.
This post from LandlordLawBlog gives the same story as your Shelter source. In your case where the tenancy went periodic before 6 April 2007, the landlord's hurdle is that the Section 21 is only valid if either the deposit has been previously protected or returned to you.
Each of the deposit protection schemes provides a facility for checking if your deposit is protected with them. For example, the DPS' facility is
here. Further, when a landlord protects a tenant's deposit they are required to provide written details of the protection scheme that has been used. These details, which are prescribed in regulations, are termed the "prescribed information" and must also have been provided to the tenant prior to issuing the S21 notice.
Incidentally, if your deposit has been protected you are pretty much guaranteed to get it all back. This is because the process requires the landlord and tenant to agree any deductions to be made from the deposit. If agreement cannot be reached then each scheme operates an arbitration process based on written submissions. The onus is very much on the landlord to provide justification for any deductions being claimed. Unless there is a detailed inventory which was agreed at the start of the tenancy, there will be no yardstick against which the present condition of the property can be judged. Without such a yardstick the landlord has no means of evidencing any claim. You may have to stand your ground in any discussion about claims on your deposit as it is not unknown for landlords and agents to try and bully tenants over this.
AleisterCrowley wrote:modellingman wrote:Although I note that the advice on .gov.uk is a Section 21 notice must always give your tenants at least 2 months’ notice to leave your property.
If it’s a periodic tenancy, you must also let your tenants stay for any additional time covered by their final rent payment., the legal basis of the additional time bit is far from clear.
One of the other changes introduced by the Deregulation Act was to drop (in England) the requirement that the end date of a S21 notice should be the last day of a tenancy period. A S21 notice can now be issued with the end-date falling mid-way through a rent period. The Act also added a new Section 21C to the Housing Act 1988 which provides for repayment of rent to the tenant if the tenancy ends before the end of a rent period. In practice, I would expect a tenant under a Section 21 notice and intending to leave would make a short final rent payment pro-rated on the number of days in occupation.
Hmm, so back to a rolling 2 months from when I get my (valid) S21 NTQ then ? Odd that the gov.uk site seems to contradict this
Bear in mind that this section on .gov.uk at will have been written by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, whose performance in this area is far from stellar. The ministry has, over the years, had at least three goes at getting the legislation on tenancy deposits right (the Deregulation Act, being its most recent attempt). A more recent example of MHCLG's "competence" can be found in the
How to Rent booklet. For tenancies commencing after 1 October 2015, landlords are required to issue a copy of this booklet to tenants at the start of a tenancy - without it, no Section 21 can be issued. Further, the version of the booklet issued must be the latest version. In June this year a new version was issued by MCHLG. Less than a month later, this version was superceded because its title did not conform to the relevant regulations. As a result, the National Landlord's Association is now advising members who had issued the June 2018 version to tenants that they should re-issue the later July 2018 version to be absolutely certain of conforming to the conditions for being able to issue Section 21 notices.
As a fairly experienced landlord who self-manages, I try and follow legislative and related developments in this area closely. I raised my doubts about the validity of the "additional time" bit because a) the only reference I have ever seen to it is on the .gov.uk webpage you quoted b) it cuts across two of the changes introduced in the Deregulation Act (notice need no longer expire on the last day of a rent period and the requirement to refund tenants for days of non-occupation via Section 21C) and c) my view of MHCLG's ability to get anything right first time in this field.
At the time the Deregulation Act came into force,
this landlord's organisation seemed to be taking the view that rent apportionment would be required in the final period of the tenancy, with the implication that allowing the tenant "additional time" was not a requirement.
Of course, I could be wrong and if anyone knows different on this aspect S21 then I'm always happy to learn.