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Setting up a trust

including wills and probate
Parky
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Re: Setting up a trust

#166513

Postby Parky » September 15th, 2018, 8:54 am

Clitheroekid wrote:
teecee90 wrote:However, having made a few initial enquiries with brokers/platforms such as Halifax and Vanguard it seems that making investments in the name of the trust is not as easy as I first thought. So far, the response has been that they will only accept account applications for personal accounts, not an account in the name of a trust, so I'm not sure how in practical terms I am going to get the money invested.

I would query whether it’s really necessary to set the trust up at the platform with a specific ‘trust’ type name. After all, it’s only a label, and the legal nature of the investment and its beneficial owners is not defined by that label.

Consequently, if you were to make the investment in your own name or the joint names of yourself and your co-trustees I can’t see it making any practical difference. You know it’s a trust; your co-trustees know it’s a trust; it will be administered in accordance with trust law, so the actual label would seem irrelevant.

The only obstacle that may exist is if you have to sign a declaration confirming that you’re the beneficial owner - but without having seen the application form I simply don’t know whether you would or not.



I have had Trust accounts with and without the Trust label.

If you invest in your own name (i.e. not a Trust account) I could forsee problems if/when a Trustee dies, in that it would be difficult or impossible to keep the funds out of their estate, and thus subject them to inheritance tax etc. A Trust account would just by-pass all that, which is why I have gone that way for a Trust which is expected to outlive me as trustee.

teecee90
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Re: Setting up a trust

#167201

Postby teecee90 » September 18th, 2018, 1:39 pm

So far, the following have confirmed that they accept accounts in the name of a trust:

The Share Centre
Hargreaves Lansdown
Fidelity
Alliance Trust

AJ Bell indicated that it would be possible by way of a "designated account", but I'm not sure that would be the right way to go, as it appears to be a personal account but just with a designated purpose, rather than a specific trust account.

There are mixed messages about whether a Legal Entity Identifier (LEI) is required. Some have said that an LEI is necessary, some are silent on the matter, and some indicate that an LEI is not necessary if only trading funds.

Making progress, but more work to do yet.....

teecee90
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Re: Setting up a trust

#168555

Postby teecee90 » September 24th, 2018, 11:21 am

Latest position in regard to this is that the solicitor drawing up the trust deed has suggested that me and my cousin should not be trustees and have offered to act as trustees on our behalf. This is because we are both potential beneficiaries - anything left in the trust when the main beneficiary (my cousin) dies goes first to his brother (the other trustee), or if he does not survive then to me, or if neither of us survive, then to my children. Solicitors have said that we cant be trustees and potential beneficiaries - makes sense, although I have to wonder why the solicitor that drafted the will did not mention this at the time.

Anyway, the current solicitors have indicated that they would act as trustees free of charge - which I find somewhat difficult to believe so will be double checking this before deciding what to do. The other option is to appoint other family members that are not potential beneficiaries.

Nothing is ever straight-forward.

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Re: Setting up a trust

#168561

Postby scrumpyjack » September 24th, 2018, 11:41 am

I would be very reluctant to appoint a solicitor, other than a family member or friend acting in a personal capacity. Whatever verbal assurance is given on fees is given now, you may find it very difficult or costly to get rid of them as trustee if you want to in future.

If you have trustworthy relations I think that is generally a better solution but it may not always be possible.

Parky
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Re: Setting up a trust

#168562

Postby Parky » September 24th, 2018, 11:46 am

teecee90 wrote:Latest position in regard to this is that the solicitor drawing up the trust deed has suggested that me and my cousin should not be trustees and have offered to act as trustees on our behalf. This is because we are both potential beneficiaries - anything left in the trust when the main beneficiary (my cousin) dies goes first to his brother (the other trustee), or if he does not survive then to me, or if neither of us survive, then to my children. Solicitors have said that we cant be trustees and potential beneficiaries - makes sense, although I have to wonder why the solicitor that drafted the will did not mention this at the time.

Anyway, the current solicitors have indicated that they would act as trustees free of charge - which I find somewhat difficult to believe so will be double checking this before deciding what to do. The other option is to appoint other family members that are not potential beneficiaries.

Nothing is ever straight-forward.



If your cousin and you agreed, then you could draw up a Deed of Variation of the will (not difficult) to exclude yourselves as potential beneficiaries, which would enable you to become trustees.
Agree with your comment about solicitors acting free of charge :lol:

PinkDalek
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Re: Setting up a trust

#168617

Postby PinkDalek » September 24th, 2018, 2:32 pm

teecee90 wrote:Latest position in regard to this is that the solicitor drawing up the trust deed has suggested that me and my cousin should not be trustees and have offered to act as trustees on our behalf. This is because we are both potential beneficiaries - anything left in the trust when the main beneficiary (my cousin) dies goes first to his brother (the other trustee), or if he does not survive then to me, or if neither of us survive, then to my children. Solicitors have said that we cant be trustees and potential beneficiaries - makes sense, although I have to wonder why the solicitor that drafted the will did not mention this at the time. ...



I am a Trustee of more than one Trust, where I am potentially a beneficiary as a long-stop. Perhaps the advice given is in view of the Trust Deed being for a person with a learning disability, I don't know, and/or might be to avoid any conflict of interest etc and to cover the points made by Clitheroekid here viewtopic.php?p=156473#p156473 but I'd be interested to see if Clitheroekid is able to make further comment on this.

Did your new solicitor go into further detail as to why you can't be both or was it a advisory shouldn't?

Kantwebefriends
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Re: Setting up a trust

#170384

Postby Kantwebefriends » October 1st, 2018, 12:42 am

Jabd2001 wrote:I think you will just have to work through the main DIY brokers until you find one which will take a trust account - Hargreaves, Youinvest, ATS, interactive investors, Charles Stanley Direct all worth a try.
For cash, national savings take trust accounts. A very few other institutions do, again, needs going through each one individually.



Bath BS do, I believe. Maybe it's worth looking at your local BSs.

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Re: Setting up a trust

#170407

Postby Chrysalis » October 1st, 2018, 8:22 am

I’m sorry but I’d be very wary of the solicitor making a recommendation that is in their interest.
I am trustee for my children, and would stand to benefit if anything happened to them. I don’t consider that to be a conflict of interest and no professional advisor (we have had involvement from solicitors, accountants and financial planners) has ever suggested anything of the sort or proposed that they take our place as trustees.

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Re: Setting up a trust

#171404

Postby chris » October 4th, 2018, 1:30 pm

Hi TC

As a parent with a disabled son, I know that you have got to be really careful what sort of trust you set up for a person with a disability who is in supported living and is on benefits. Our solicitors who are specialists in disabled matters and have acted for us against the local authority made the point when asking what trust our will set up. Apparently if it is the wrong type, not only may your nephew lose his state benefits because he has too much savings but the LA may also assess his new means and take the capital to pay for his supported living.

Therefore make sure that you make it clear to your solicitor that you want a trust set up where this cannot happen (and if I recall rightly, a disabled trust bizarrely is the WRONG type of trust).

Sorry that I can't remember the correct form of trust but put it in writing to your solicitor so that they cannot claim not to have known.

Chris


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