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External Decoration to Leasehold Property

including wills and probate
torata
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External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#162725

Postby torata » August 28th, 2018, 9:44 pm

My mum owns the leasehold to a property of two dwellings.
She lives in the ground floor, with another family living in the first and second floor (2nd floor is in the roofspace - like a loft conversion, but it was built that way).
Shared costs, like gardener for the driveway area, are divided up 50/50 on an informal basis. Usually my mother pays and collects from the family upstairs later.

The outside of the property needs repainting, including huge chimney stacks, with some work to repair flashing, and repaint all external woodwork. From the quotes she's received so far, this is going to be a 20 grand or more. Other than my mum getting her own windows repainted, nothing has been done externally for many years.
The roof was repaired maybe 15-20 years previously when my father was alive, and a different family in the upstairs property.

My questions are:
- Does she need to issue some kind of written notice (like a section 20) to the family above? They don't seem enamoured at the thought of having to pay.
- Should it be 50/50 split? On a pure surface area, the upstairs property looks to have a lot more external walls, and there's clearly more work to be done up there - some specific to that dwelling, e.g. a wooden balcony balustrade that is falling apart and may need to be replaced (to my eyes it's unsafe).
- Is there anything else legally that she needs to be aware of?

Complicating issues:
My mother is in her 70s, widowed about 3 years ago, with my dad doing everything in that department when alive. She can't type / resists putting anything down on paper. She was under the impression that it was the responsibility of the people upstairs to keep their external windows, balcony etc in order.

- It would be so much better if she could outsource this to someone (I live abroad), but I have no idea who would be appropriate and how this could be done.

torata

didds
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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#162728

Postby didds » August 28th, 2018, 10:03 pm

id she is the lkeaseholder, presumably upstairs are also leaseholders?

Who is the freeholder and what do they say/are their contractural responsibilites?

what does the wording of the lease say?

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_ ... and_houses

Clitheroekid
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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#162753

Postby Clitheroekid » August 29th, 2018, 12:55 am

torata wrote:My mum owns the leasehold to a property of two dwellings.

So the first question is who owns the freehold. It may be that it's owned jointly between your mother and the other leaseholder, but it's essential to find out.

My questions are:
- Does she need to issue some kind of written notice (like a section 20) to the family above? They don't seem enamoured at the thought of having to pay.
- Should it be 50/50 split? On a pure surface area, the upstairs property looks to have a lot more external walls, and there's clearly more work to be done up there - some specific to that dwelling, e.g. a wooden balcony balustrade that is falling apart and may need to be replaced (to my eyes it's unsafe).
- Is there anything else legally that she needs to be aware of?

It's completely impossible to answer any of the questions without (a) knowing the identity of the freeholder; and (2) knowing exactly what the lease says about repairs.

She was under the impression that it was the responsibility of the people upstairs to keep their external windows, balcony etc in order.

Unfortunately, `being under the impression' won't help her at all. However, the good news is that repair responsibilities will be set out in some detail in the lease.

It would be so much better if she could outsource this to someone (I live abroad), but I have no idea who would be appropriate and how this could be done.

The obvious answer is to ask a solicitor to read the lease for your mother, translate the repair covenants into a form that she can understand, and advise her as to how she can / should proceed.

Situations like this can be difficult to resolve, particularly where there's quite a lot of money needing to be spent and a reluctance to do so. But it's absolutely essential for your mother to find out what the lease says and where she stands legally in relation to the other leaseholder, and she should not take any action at all or enter into any discussions with the other leaseholder until this has been done.

torata
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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#163023

Postby torata » August 29th, 2018, 10:04 pm

torata wrote:My mum owns the leasehold to a property of two dwellings.


Many apologies, I should have written "My mum owns the freehold to a single property of two dwellings"
(and to clarify, she lives in the downstairs dwelling and leaseholders live in the upstairs dwelling).

Thank you both Didds and Clitherokid.

It seems the next step for me is to confirm if she has a copy of the leasehold agreement for the upstairs dwelling.

If she can't find a copy of the leasehold agreement, can this be retrieved from somewhere like the land registry? I've looked on their site and it's not clear to me. Would the leasehold agreement be included in the deeds?

Once again, apologies for miswriting that first sentence.

torata

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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#163043

Postby Clitheroekid » August 29th, 2018, 11:51 pm

torata wrote:If she can't find a copy of the leasehold agreement, can this be retrieved from somewhere like the land registry? I've looked on their site and it's not clear to me. Would the leasehold agreement be included in the deeds?

Yes, you can obtain a copy of the lease from the Land Registry website - https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

The good news is that if your mum owns the freehold she is probably in a position to insist on the work being done, though extracting payment may not be easy.

As I said before, this is something where your mum definitely needs good professional advice, otherwise the potential for disaster is high!

torata
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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#163271

Postby torata » August 30th, 2018, 11:33 pm

Thanks for the reply, Clitherokid

So that I have some ammunition to get my mum to go to a solicitor, can you briefly outline what kinds of disasters could occur?

I can imagine it could be the other side refusing to pay, or holding up or witholding some payment for some reason, but I'd like to be more specific with her, otherwise it'll be dismissed with an "it'll be all right".

I'm also concerned about what I think is a potentially dangerous balcony balustrade upstairs, and her liability if it is not repaired or made safe.

Thanks in advance

torata

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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#163273

Postby Clitheroekid » August 30th, 2018, 11:49 pm

torata wrote:So that I have some ammunition to get my mum to go to a solicitor, can you briefly outline what kinds of disasters could occur?

It would be silly of me to give advice regarding the problems that might arise without any idea what the lease says. I wouldn't want you to be warning your mum about hazards that may not exist or fail to warn her of ones that might.

It only costs a couple of pounds to obtain a copy of the lease from LR, so if you do that and then come back with some details of what it says I'd hope to be able to provide more specific advice.

torata
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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#163334

Postby torata » August 31st, 2018, 10:59 am

Thanks Clitheroekid,

I'll look into the lease.

torata

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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#163338

Postby pochisoldi » August 31st, 2018, 12:18 pm

torata wrote:Thanks Clitheroekid,

I'll look into the lease.

torata


Step 2: Visit www.lease-advice.org and get some knowledge of what's involved in dealing with major works.
Click on "I am the freeholder or intermediate landlord of a building containing flats"
Then click on "I have a question about service charges"
Then read the articles listed, paying attention to "What is the Section 20 consultation process for major works?" and anything else containing the term "major works".

If anything is unclear, make some notes,
If you need to google, "section 20 consultation" and/or "major works consultation" will deliver results which may give a different perspective/different angle on the subject allowing you to get your head around it.

Step 3: Get clarification on any uncertainties
Go to lease-advice.org Click on the Contact Us "Book your call now", and ask your questions.

PochiSoldi

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Re: External Decoration to Leasehold Property

#163362

Postby Clitheroekid » August 31st, 2018, 2:20 pm

pochisoldi wrote:Step 2: Visit http://www.lease-advice.org and get some knowledge of what's involved in dealing with major works.
Click on "I am the freeholder or intermediate landlord of a building containing flats"
Then click on "I have a question about service charges"
Then read the articles listed, paying attention to "What is the Section 20 consultation process for major works?" and anything else containing the term "major works".

If anything is unclear, make some notes,
If you need to google, "section 20 consultation" and/or "major works consultation" will deliver results which may give a different perspective/different angle on the subject allowing you to get your head around it.

Step 3: Get clarification on any uncertainties
Go to lease-advice.org Click on the Contact Us "Book your call now", and ask your questions.

Whilst lease-advice.org are a very useful resource I suspect that obtaining information about service charges and section 20 consultations at this stage may simply confuse the issue, as I think it's very unlikely that either will apply in this case.

From what little we know the OP's mum appears to own the freehold of just two flats. It's extremely unusual in a two flat setup to have a service charge at all. It follows that if there's no service charge there is no need for - or even possibility of - a section 20 consultation.

I would think the most likely outcome is that the OP's mum as the freeholder is legally responsible for all major external repairs but that she has the right to claim reimbursement of half the costs from the other leaseholder.

No doubt all will be revealed fairly soon ...


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