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Property in one or both names pros / cons?

including wills and probate
orraloon
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Property in one or both names pros / cons?

#173873

Postby orraloon » October 15th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Can anyone point me in the direction of a useful synopsis of the implications of a married couple holding primary residence registered in only one name, not in joint or common tenancy, on such things as wills structuring, IHT, etc? Been trawling the internet to little result so far.

Due to the timings of various property transactions and 2nd time around marriage, we have ended up with our current sole property listed with the Land Registry in a single name. Can of course add the 2nd partner, at a fee, but do we need to? Is it better to?

Thanks in advance.

(And I've realised this is my 1st post on lemonfool. I had been a lurker (mainly) on TMF since the late 90s though.)

Moderator Message:
Welcome to LemonFool as a poster! I think this is better on the Legal board, so I've moved it there and left a shadow copy in DAK (chas49)

Clitheroekid
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Re: Property in one or both names pros / cons?

#174129

Postby Clitheroekid » October 16th, 2018, 1:20 pm

orraloon wrote:Can anyone point me in the direction of a useful synopsis of the implications of a married couple holding primary residence registered in only one name, not in joint or common tenancy, on such things as wills structuring, IHT, etc? Been trawling the internet to little result so far.

The probable reason you've not been able to find anything is that the question is too wide in its scope. There is no `one size fits all' solution, and the ideal outcome is dependent on individual circumstances.

However, in very simple terms it doesn't usually matter very much whether property is in one name or two. If you split up and get divorced the courts aren't generally bothered one way or the other, and assuming you've been married more than a couple of years they will tend to treat property as jointly owned irrespective of whose name it's registered in.

Likewise, on death transfers between husband and wife are exempt from inheritance tax, so it makes little difference from that point of view.

Due to the timings of various property transactions and 2nd time around marriage, we have ended up with our current sole property listed with the Land Registry in a single name. Can of course add the 2nd partner, at a fee, but do we need to? Is it better to?

Again, it depends on what criteria you're applying to the question. As I said, it probably wouldn't make much difference if you were to divorce, neither would there be any inheritance tax benefits from putting it in joint names.

However, one aspect that you do very much need to consider is whether you've made Wills. If you haven't then whether or not the property is in one or joint names could make a massive difference.

If you die without a Will then the devolution of your property is governed by the Intestacy Rules. These are complicated but there's a simple guide here - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/famil ... intestacy/

The main point is that if the house is in your sole name its whole value will be included in your estate. As you can see, this could cause huge complications for the surviving spouse, who may even be forced to sell the house, as if there are children she is only entitled to £250k in cash.

However, if the house is in joint names and owned (as most houses owned by married couples are) as joint tenants it will pass automatically into the sole name of the surviving spouse, and the Intestacy Rules won't affect it.

Of course if you've made a Will leaving everything to your spouse the problem wouldn't arise anyway.

One minor advantage of owning property jointly is that it may be possible to avoid having to apply for probate on the first death, as jointly owned assets normally pass automatically without the need for any paperwork. However, these days most people have ISA's and so on which must by law be in their own names so that probate will be needed anyway.

You say it's a second marriage. This can sometimes complicate matters, as there may be children from the former marriage that you wish to benefit from your estate rather than just leaving everything to the surviving spouse. However, it's not realistic to give general advice about specific circumstances, so you should really take individual advice from a solicitor.

Dod101
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Re: Property in one or both names pros / cons?

#174144

Postby Dod101 » October 16th, 2018, 2:16 pm

CK is I have no doubt correct assuming you are talking about English law applying. The situation is slightly different under Scottish Law. Who actually funded the property? In a second marriage that can be important for the reasons that CK has mentioned; children of the first marriage may feel aggrieved if they see what was their inheritance/family home slipping away.

My first wife died and my second wife moved into what was my family home. Against legal advice, I put my new wife's name on the title but on condition that in her Will, if she predeceased me, her share would revert to me. Sadly that is exactly what happened and I am glad to say that the house is now 100% mine again. We do not have the situation in Scotland of jointly held property automatically passing to the survivor (joint tenancies). I could have found myself in the position of owning 50% of my own house and having to buy out my wife's estate!

You need to think very carefully from both your and your wife's point of view about what will happen in the event of divorce, or the death of either one of you (The latter is certain at some point; the former less so)

Dod

Lootman
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Re: Property in one or both names pros / cons?

#174165

Postby Lootman » October 16th, 2018, 3:09 pm

Dod101 wrote: We do not have the situation in Scotland of jointly held property automatically passing to the survivor (joint tenancies). I could have found myself in the position of owning 50% of my own house and having to buy out my wife's estate!.

I have no reason to doubt that that is true in Scotland. But how on earth does it work in practice?

If an asset is held as a joint tenancy then it is part of the meaning of that phrase that, upon the death of one tenant, the whole reverts to the other tenant. No legal process is required for that to happen - it is automatic and instantaneous. And as CK notes that may mean no probate is required.

So what happens in Scotland? Does some court intervene and initiates a process that imposes ownership by a third party of the asset? How?

And what if instead the asset was a bank account with 100K in it? Upon the death of one tenant surely the other tenant can simply withdraw that 100K and that is done. Again who or what intervenes to stop that happening? A judge? A sheriff? Or does some other prospective beneficiary have to initiate a court action to stop you?

Seems to me the concept of joint tenancy doesn't really exist there.

genou
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Re: Property in one or both names pros / cons?

#174169

Postby genou » October 16th, 2018, 3:15 pm

Lootman wrote:Seems to me the concept of joint tenancy doesn't really exist there.


The normal solution is to attach a survivorship destination to the title on the property. In that case both owners lose testamentary capacity over the heritage and the effect is functionally equivalent to joint tenancy. The OPs problem ( if I understand it ) was the he did not want the house to pass to his spouse if he died first,so that a survivorship destination did not achieve his aims; and neither would a JT in England.

Dod101
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Re: Property in one or both names pros / cons?

#174174

Postby Dod101 » October 16th, 2018, 3:51 pm

Lootman wrote:Seems to me the concept of joint tenancy doesn't really exist there.


That is true; it does not and one solution is what genou says. The concept is simple, that if a property is in joint names it is assumed that is owned 50/50 and in the absence of a survivorship clause, each party is the owner of a 50% share and can do what he/she likes with it. Obviously most couples will have mirror Wills, especially if it is a first marriage for both and there are no complications like step children, but in my case, as I had entirely funded the family home, I was advised to give my second wife a life tenancy in the event that I predeceased her so that the property would remain in my estate and when she died, the property would be sold and the proceeds distributed to my chosen beneficiaries. That seemed to me to be hardly in the spirit of a loving relationship and so I instead gave her 50% on condition that in her Will was the clause I mentioned above, that should she predecease me, the 50% would revert to me and that is what happened.

Dod

orraloon
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Re: Property in one or both names pros / cons?

#175091

Postby orraloon » October 19th, 2018, 8:28 pm

Thanks for the replies. Will re-writing is in progress, hence prompt for original question. Doing our own draft to cover (hopefully) the easy bits then just pay the expert for the bits which require expertise.


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