"self employment" cleaning

[didds]

this co0uld be a DAK, so mods feel free to move etc.

My daughter has an interview for a cleaning job for4 a company locally ie they "send" her to a job toc loean a buildi9ng.

They have explained that she would be self-employed.

I am frankly very sceptical about "sel;f employ,ment" that looks suspiciously like hidden employment presumably relieving the "employer" of such annoying things such as employers NICs, and pensions, and holiday and sickness pay. On the other hand the rate is higher than her current cleaning job so mayb e there is at least some quid pro quo going on. I've suggested she asks for a copy of the contract to read through before signing up and we can go through it together. Not that I am a contract lawyer by any means but 16 years contracting in IT leaves with a tiny tiny amount of things to maybe look for.

However... i'd bve interested in people's thoughts as to such "selpf employment" practixces, legalities, realities, gotchas etc. Ive alreay explained to her she woold ned to keep some basic "books" and register as self employed with HMRC if she went ahead and ity was self employment... even if (AIUI) she won;t earn enough still to pay tax.

cheers

didds

[dionaeamuscipula]

My daughter has an interview for a cleaning job for4 a company locally ie they "send" her to a job toc loean a buildi9ng.

They have explained that she would be self-employed.

You can take the test here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-emplo ... us-for-tax

things like substitution rights, who provides the tools, exclusivity, ability to turn down work are important. And it is the reality not the contract which confers.

She will be giving up holiday, sick pay, and pension rights, plus of course any security of employment.

DM

[didds]

She will be giving up holiday, sick pay, and pension rights, plus of course any security of employment.

DM

indeed and Ive explained all that. Of course as a normal employee until she's actually worked anywhere for two years she has no security anyway.

cheers!

didds

[melonfool]

Common practice but not really legal - if there was a crack down these people would undoubtedly be termed employees.

However, it's up to her, if she doesn't do it, someone will. It's not the kind of illegal you get arrested for, but she could be made to pay back tax.

I wouldn't do it myself but then I've always been a bit of a rule follower. Lots of cleaning companies do properly employ people though, can she find one that does? The bigger ones do.

Mel

[midnightcatprowl]

I wouldn't do it myself but then I've always been a bit of a rule follower. Lots of cleaning companies do properly employ people though, can she find one that does? The bigger ones do.

But could she be genuinely self-employed by taking on her own clients or has this already been tried? Many people will pay an awful lot and be very grateful indeed for a good cleaner! The cleaner does have to be somewhat assertive in representing themselves as the person you really do want of course. Some cleaners clean, others sort of move the dirt around (I can remember some of the latter sort from office cleaning when I worked for a local council). You have to position yourself as the person worth paying and worth a lot more than the minimum wage!

N.B. I have a friend with a very very serious arthritic condition but fortunately she has the ability to pay for help and will pay far beyond the minimum for good help. Maybe because she is a good person to work for and pays well she has almost always had good cleaners but one of the best was a student at the local university who set himself up as a cleaner to help pay his way through uni. He was so successful that he ended up employing other cleaners himself to cover all the commitments he managed to attract.

I know it is easier to say this than to do it but sometimes people under-sell themselves both in what they say about themselves and in the fees they ask for what they do. When I owned and was running a High Street shop I learned early on that sometimes if something does not sell putting the price up rather than down can be effective. However odd it seems charging more for something often enhances it in the eyes of prospective purchasers.

[dspp]

I know 3 or 4 immigrants to the UK who successfully put themselves through college, and bought houses, as a result of being cleaners. A couple of them even worked for me for a good few years, and for the first few years would set off after a days work at mill to go and do a round of cleaning jobs. They have since completed their degrees and moved on to white collar employment. They all ran their cleaning as independent businesses, and indeed genuinely were. I respect them highly for it.

So I'd say to the youngster: go for it and then get some other clients and then you can choose to wean yourself off the initial client if you want to.

regards, dspp

[didds]

Agree entirely Mel. I'm suspicious of such "jobs" ie "self employment" because it smacks of somebody muddying the waters over their employers' responsibilities and obfuscating the true situation, in efforts to bamboozle the - presumed - worker's lack of knowledge into working woithout the expected protections.

As it is she's found another cleaning job far more locally that she is very happy with.

thanks all

didds