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Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

including wills and probate
anniesdad
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Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180666

Postby anniesdad » November 15th, 2018, 8:24 pm

I have a Freind divorcing after 17 year marriage. The starting point on assets is that they are split equally. Presumably the thinking is that the breadwinner (traditional sexist husband) worked long hours so didn’t have time or inclination to change nappies, cook dinners etc while the home maker (wife) spent her time at home ironing, cleaning, looking after the kids. So they had a joint enterprise and both facilitated the other to make money and look after the home / family.

However in his case he took time out of work and became a part time house husband. They in fact shared the chores and child care equally and were both free to work when the other was on home maker duty so to speak. He built up a successful business in this time, and she was never interested at all in the business. She came into the marriage with nothing but is now expecting to come out of it with £600,000.

She will end up mortgage free, have £10k pa passive income, pensions, investments, and is capable of working (kids all at school). How much leeway has he got to reduce the 50:50 asset split. He ends up with the remnants of his business but with massive mortgage, and debt.

Thanks for reading.

swill453
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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180682

Postby swill453 » November 15th, 2018, 8:56 pm

anniesdad wrote:She will end up mortgage free, have £10k pa passive income, pensions, investments, and is capable of working (kids all at school). How much leeway has he got to reduce the 50:50 asset split. He ends up with the remnants of his business but with massive mortgage, and debt.

That doesn't sound like a 50:50 split*. Surely the mortgage and debts need to be taken into account.

* - not that I'm saying a 50:50 split is right or appropriate.

Scott.

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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180686

Postby Lootman » November 15th, 2018, 9:00 pm

I've never understood the reasoning behind such a default division, and it's fairly well known that the UK is just about the worst place on the planet for getting divorced if you are the wealthier spouse.

I seem to recall that in his 40's John Cleese married a woman who lived in a council flat and was broke. She ended up with half his wealth on the basis that she has become "accustomed" to a fabulous lifestyle.

anniesdad
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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180695

Postby anniesdad » November 15th, 2018, 9:28 pm

He ends up with something like assets £1,300 k - debt of £700k = £600 k net. She has a more simple and less worrying £600k assets - zero debt = £600k.

He wanted to keep the family home to give some stability and continuity to the kids so he will have the stress of rate rises which doesn’t sound fair. They will continue as they always did with 50:50 shared parenting so there is no maintenance requirement from either.

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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180760

Postby chas49 » November 16th, 2018, 7:47 am

I appreciate you may not know all the details, but how are the assets made up (how much is the house?) Presumably the mortgage is secured on the house? Is the wife's name not on the mortgage?

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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180788

Postby Lanark » November 16th, 2018, 11:02 am

I think 50% is fair - thats the idea of marriage, imagine if this couple were still together, with him earning all the money, he sets his wife up in a cheap flat while he lives separately in a giant mansion across the road, would you think of that as a fair arrangement? No, so why would it be different once they split up?

In divorce settlements people tend to focus too much on the cash and ignore the ongoing debt/expenses.
That £700K in debt could easily put him in the poorhouse if his business takes a turn for the worse, interest rates rise and asset values crash. But thats his choice.

anniesdad
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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180790

Postby anniesdad » November 16th, 2018, 11:11 am

Buy to let’s several worth maybe 1m with maybe 500k mortgages all in his name. 500 k in stocks and shares isas and pensions generated by him but put in both names. 400k home with 150 k mortgage in joint names. He wants to keep the family home so she will move out and she would rather have cash than investments, properties mortgages etc.

Mike88
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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180804

Postby Mike88 » November 16th, 2018, 11:58 am

My son ended up with 35% of marital assets and the fact his former wife emptied their joint savings accounts and maxed out the overdraft on their bank accounts immediately prior to her issuing the divorce petition was simply ignored. The simple fact is that, when there children involved, the custodial parent gets the lions share. However, if there are no children, or when custody is shared in equal measures, a 50% split seems fair as the marriage is supposed to be a partnership with joint assets - not his and hers. The John Cleese example previously mentioned is somewhat extreme but Cleese must have been aware, or at least had some idea, of how things work before he entered into marriage with a person who had nothing. You reap what you sow.

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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180846

Postby RececaDron » November 16th, 2018, 1:39 pm

He built up a successful business in this time,


Buy to let’s several worth maybe 1m with maybe 500k mortgages all in his name.


Is that the "business"?


anniesdad wrote:He ends up with something like assets £1,300 k - debt of £700k = £600 k net. She has a more simple and less worrying £600k assets - zero debt = £600k.

He wanted to keep the family home to give some stability and continuity to the kids so he will have the stress of rate rises which doesn’t sound fair.


Why doesn't he make different choices then?

Flog the "business"; sell the family house; each of them starts from scratch with half the spoils. Any debt he chooses to take on would be his choice.

What am I missing?

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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180990

Postby zico » November 16th, 2018, 11:30 pm

I thought the reason for equal split of assets was that marriage is between two equal partners entering into a hopefully lifetime partnership. I'm sure the 50/50 split was well known when the couple decided to marry. If divorce splits were based on relative financial contributions, it would be a lot more difficult for rich and/or intelligent ugly people to marry very good-looking people!

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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#180995

Postby Lootman » November 17th, 2018, 12:25 am

zico wrote:I thought the reason for equal split of assets was that marriage is between two equal partners entering into a hopefully lifetime partnership. I'm sure the 50/50 split was well known when the couple decided to marry. If divorce splits were based on relative financial contributions, it would be a lot more difficult for rich and/or intelligent ugly people to marry very good-looking people!

Yes, but that assumes "Equal partners" Not all partners are equal. You'd need to define that.

I struggled with marriage for a long time because it is so easy to marry and so hard to divorce. It is an asymmetric contract.

I have been lucky. Been married for a long time, our children are adults and we continue to flourish. But that was at least part luck and I would dread the trauma of a divorce given the way the law tramples all over consensual adults.

Anyway, just a rant as it is not a practical response to the original question.

ten0rman
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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#181148

Postby ten0rman » November 17th, 2018, 8:19 pm

My marriage was a meeting of unequals in that I brought the money in whilst Mrs T had the kids, stayed at home and looked after them. And now that they have flown the nest, and I have retired, she is still dependant in the main on me financially.

Despite the fact that we don't see eye to eye on some things, it is my belief that after 47 years, a 50-50 split would be totally fair, although trying to calculate a "value" for certain items might be somewhat difficult.

Regards,

ten0rman

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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#181202

Postby quelquod » November 18th, 2018, 9:30 am

+1

My wife never brought much home - pin-money really while I worked all hours, ran a company and built our finances. The house and home magically looked after itself. Were we to split of course she'd be due half - won't happen though :) . It's what the partnership is about.

Despite what the friend says or even believes I feel it's unlikely that he split the domestic stuff equally - just doesn't happen.

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Re: Divorce, is 50:50 split fair?

#181800

Postby Clitheroekid » November 20th, 2018, 10:02 pm

Mike88 wrote:The simple fact is that, when there children involved, the custodial parent gets the lions share.

This does happen quite often, but only because so far as divorce law is concerned the welfare of the children is the paramount consideration. Consequently, ensuring that they are decently housed is the top priority.

In many cases where there's not much money this will mean that the custodial parent (nearly always the wife) will get to stay in the matrimonial home. And as she is usually the lower earner the house will sometimes be transferred to her free of mortgage so that she's not under undue financial pressure when bringing up the kids.

But in the present case there would appear to be no need for that. There's plenty of dosh floating around, so I see no reason why the normal 50/50 split shouldn't apply.

I can't see that he's got much room to complain. If his `business' is simply a few buy to lets it's hardly the same as creating and running a `proper' business. Most of the value that's been created is likely to be more a consequence of house price inflation rather than his amazing business acumen.

He ends up with the remnants of his business but with massive mortgage, and debt.

This sounds far more tragic than it would appear to be. He can choose to keep the debt if he wants, but he doesn't have to. He could simply liquidate some assets to reduce or eliminate the debt.

So to answer your original question, no, he's not likely to get much sympathy from a judge if he starts arguing that he wants more than 50%.


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