Probate & credit cards, agencies

[Sunnypad]

hi there
I appreciate these questions might seem odd on a general forum, but I am in a delicate spot.

my mum is the executor of my late father's estate. she is in communication with the solicitor but keeps panicking about everything. The estate is obviously hers, so although I am trying to help, I have held back some questions that I'd have liked to ask the solicitor because I didn't want to make mum more anxious at the meeting.

so I wonder if Fools know, generally

- do solicitors deal with cancelling credit cards first? I'm pretty sure there's no outstanding bills because dad was ill for a long time, but just wondered in what order solicitors deal with things.

- should credit agencies be informed? Solicitor said it is not normal practice for them to do this, which surprised me. Does the information filter through?

Any stories of probate not taking forever would be very cheering btw, my mother is in such a state, bless her.
TIA for any help

[staffordian]

Until an expert comes along, my two penneth.

Personally, I (or in this case, your mother) would phone the credit card company and ask them what to do. They would, I suspect, accept notification from the next of kin if a death certificate was supplied. (And it's worth having a few copies of the death certificate, hopefully already sorted?).

As for credit agencies, I've never heard of them being informed. After all, it's unlikely to be a problem if his rating is affected..

I guess they pick these things up through their usual channels and close the file, but it's the ,ast thing I'd be worrying about.

Good luck with everything.

Staffordian

Edit

Meant to add, when my father died, I prepared a list of all his bank accounts, savings etc with approximate balances, account numbers, addresses etc. My view is that anyrhing you can do to save the solicitor time will also save you money and help speed things along a little. It took about four months in total, but there was no property involved, just deposit accounts etc

[dionaeamuscipula]

If you are able to use the Tell Us Once service and have not already done so:

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organi ... ll-us-once

This does not cover credit cards. For them, and banks generally, they have specialist bereavement teams who are very good and very kind IME. You will be put through to them if you ring the standard number. There should be no reason for a solicitor to do this, you can make the call and if needed, get your mother to confirm your instructions.

Accounts are suspended immediately. Make sure your mother continues to have access to funds.

DM

[Sunnypad]

thanks for replies

Staffordian - do you mean it took 4 months to get to probate? That sounds much better than some of the estimates we have heard, thank you. It's deposit accounts and some shares - the property you and I talked about on the other thread is in mum's name.

my mother handed everything over to the solicitor - including credit cards - because she felt unable to cope and didn't want me doing it either. It's her inheritance so I don't really have the right to intrude on how she wants things done.

so I am just wondering how the solicitor proceeds and if they cancel credit cards first, that's all.

good point re credit record - I was wondering more in case anyone applies fraudulently but I guess that's not a concern.

she does have access to funds, so that's okay.

I'm trying to keep an eye on the process as much as I can because she gets upset every time a piece of paper arrives in the post - which is obviously daily! She had never had any involvement with life admin before (a fact which has come as a shock to me, to be honest). Thanks for the thoughts.

[staffordian]

Hi Sunnypad,

I think we must have been very lucky; the entire process was just under four months, and probate was required.

My father died on 31 March and I've just looked back to see I received my share of the inheritance on 13 July the same year.

Staffordian

[terminal7]

My very elderly mother died mid July. I was the sole executor - my father had died many years ago. The whole probate process was completed in 2 months by myself with some limited support from a paralegal. However, the estate was simple and just involved a number of bank accounts, bonds and a single property. There were no IHT implications after bringing forward my father's allowance. Unless the estate is complex - I cannot see any reason why a solicitor should take more than 3 months.

T7

[Sunnypad]

T7 and Staffordian, thank you

T7, I am sorry for your loss, I know it must feel very recent still.

that's good to hear re time frames. the paperwork left by dad was chaotic to say the least - I sorted through as best I could but there are a number of share certificates missing. The solicitor seemed to think that 4-6 months was doable if we could sort the certificates but she did warn us that they can constitute a major holdup. There's at least 8 share certificates missing and given he has a room full of papers that seem to be from 1960s-1990s, I decided it wasn't worth sifting through them in the hope of finding them - quicker to get new ones issued. Also again, I have the issue that mum is not ready for someone to start going through stuff like that - it was quite hard to get her on board with doing as much as I've done.

I was thinking the solicitor's comment didn't fit in at all with what others have said to us but hopefully she was being realistic and not just wildly optimistic.

[yorkshirelad1]

hi there
I appreciate these questions might seem odd on a general forum, but I am in a delicate spot.

TIA for any help

[snipped]

The TellUsOnce service covers notifying a great many organisations that will save a lot of time, notifying e.g. DVLA, Passport, council tax etc. Hopefully, when someone went to register the death at the council/registrar, they got information on and/or registered for TellUsOnce. TellUsOnce does not cover banks, but there's a new-ish service that some banks are starting which does the same thing, but if you've only got a couple of banks to deal with, you might just as well go direct. The banks service is https://www.deathnotificationservice.co.uk/ (I haven't used it)

A friend of mine died in Nov 2017; I was one of two exors. There were two daughters (one was my co-exor and sole beneficiary, and the other daughter was disinherited) and a disinherited nearly-divorced husband (decree absolute not completed as too close to date of death: too frail to sign). We've just finished. Died in November 2017, got grant of probate in March 2018, and wrapped up the estate in November 2018 (12 months on): we had to wait 6 months from grant of probate to allow for any claim. There was a house to sell, and a few bank accounts. We used a solicitor for the tricky bits (we had to tread carefully and do everything by the book and cover ourselves and be mindful of a claim against the estate). It was a fairly straightforward to do it all. 12 months seemed about right. I've heard stories of solrs taking much longer, but it depends on the complexity of the estate.

If you can do as much of the footslogging yourself (e.g. finding documents and compiling lists for solrs) it will expedite things and save on legal fees.

IANAL

[Chrysalis]

We got probate in 6 months, and will probably be in a position to finish everything by 9-10 months, but that was a fairly large estate with a house sale also completed.
I see you are in a delicate situation but it would not occur to me to incur solicitors fees for straightforward things like cancelling credit cards, closing accounts etc. I did a lot of the dogsbody work on the bills and accounts, leaving the solicitor to deal with things like completing the IHT forms and applying for probate. Why doesn’t your mother want your help with this?
Can she afford unnecessary solicitors fees? (If she can, then I guess it’s up to her if she wants to delegate every task.)

[Lootman]

The TellUsOnce service covers notifying a great many organisations that will save a lot of time, notifying e.g. DVLA, Passport, council tax etc. Hopefully, when someone went to register the death at the council/registrar, they got information on and/or registered for TellUsOnce.

The problem with that to my mind is that you may not want to tell all entities at the same time. And the reason for that is that there may be adverse consequences to telling some entities too soon.

For example I see little reason to tell utility providers. They will start sending letters that require more work from you when all you really want is for the power and water to keep working while you work on more important stuff. Or worse they may cut off service. Bills can be paid by anyone and not just the account holder.

Again, I'd advise taking your time telling a bank or credit card issuer because they will freeze the account and that might cause problems e.g. bills not being paid and income not being received.

Also a power of attorney will be revoked immediately upon telling an institution about death. (Yes, I know it can't be used after death but, at the margin, it may be useful in some cases to not have that forced upon you).

In this situation I prefer having complete control over who knows what and when, in order to minimise the time-critical workload, increase your options and mitigate risk.

[Sunnypad]

Jabd

mum can't face doing any of it and she can afford the solicitor so that's fine. She is absolutely broken so I'm fine with her handling it this way. I just asked here because I was curious about how the solicitor would go about the process, but didn't want to ask the solicitor as I am not her client.

Yorkshire lad - you say "we had to wait 6 months from grant of probate to allow for any claim"

why is that please?

[Sunnypad]

oops can't seem to edit my post

I'm aware of the Section 27 as a thing, but is it necessary - I'm not sure when solicitors do it or not. My mum inherits the estate.

I understand it's not needed as a legality but sometimes solicitors suggest it?

[PinkDalek]

I'm aware of the Section 27 as a thing, but is it necessary - I'm not sure when solicitors do it or not. My mum inherits the estate.

I understand it's not needed as a legality but sometimes solicitors suggest it?

They may as belt and braces but, from what you've said, there are unlikely to be any claims from creditors but might there be any potential beneficiaries coming out of the woodwork?

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and- ... ontent/299

We didn't bother but then I knew the finances, having (mis)managed them for some 30 years.

Edit: Who are the Executors? Re-Edit - Your mother only?

[Sunnypad]

Thanks PinkDalek

My mother is the sole beneficiary and executor.

hopefully the solicitor won't want to do it?

Another problem just came up....we've been asked to get a valuation of the house for probate. My mother tried to call a local agent - I don't know if he heard the quavery voice and guessed it was for probate, but he basically said to her "I'm not coming round to do a valuation unless you're sure you're selling the house".

I told her not to call anyone else - probably easier if I do it - but I am wondering if the probate office or whoever it is will accept an online valuation?

[Chrysalis]

You can pay a surveyor to do a probate valuation.

[supremetwo]

Thanks PinkDalek

My mother is the sole beneficiary and executor.

hopefully the solicitor won't want to do it?

Another problem just came up....we've been asked to get a valuation of the house for probate. My mother tried to call a local agent - I don't know if he heard the quavery voice and guessed it was for probate, but he basically said to her "I'm not coming round to do a valuation unless you're sure you're selling the house".

I told her not to call anyone else - probably easier if I do it - but I am wondering if the probate office or whoever it is will accept an online valuation?

Solicitor will, but their hourly rate will be a lot more than yours.

The probate office will accept a valuation via a comparison with recent sales of similar properties in the locality, especially if there is no IHT due.

Try the post code in:- https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices.html

[Clitheroekid]

- do solicitors deal with cancelling credit cards first? I'm pretty sure there's no outstanding bills because dad was ill for a long time, but just wondered in what order solicitors deal with things.

Not normally. I (and I assume most other practitioners) have a set of standard letters to go to banks, insurers etc. These register the death and ask for information about the deceased’s accounts. If the bank has issued any credit cards to the deceased this letter serves to close the credit card account , or, if there’s an outstanding balance, to freeze it until the debt is paid.

- should credit agencies be informed? Solicitor said it is not normal practice for them to do this, which surprised me. Does the information filter through?

I've never been asked to inform a credit agency, and would see no point in doing so, as the deceased is unlikely to be seeking new credit ...

Staffordian - do you mean it took 4 months to get to probate? That sounds much better than some of the estimates we have heard, thank you. It's deposit accounts and some shares

If that's all the estate consist of it's about as simple as it can be. All the solicitor needs to apply for probate is to know the amount in the accounts and the value of the shares. This could normally be obtained within a couple of weeks. The probate application could then be submitted and in my local Probate Registry (Manchester) the Grant of Probate is issued within a week or two.

The solicitor seemed to think that 4-6 months was doable if we could sort the certificates but she did warn us that they can constitute a major holdup.

It's unlikely that missing share certificates would cause a major holdup. It's extremely common, and the registrars are well geared up to deal with both the issue of new certificates and the sale of the shares (though they do charge through the nose for it, knowing the executors have no choice but to pay). From requesting a replacement certificate to receiving it would normally take no more than a couple of weeks.

In any case, you can't obtain replacement share certificates until after probate's been granted, so by definition the fact they're missing wouldn't delay the application.

As I said above, it sounds like an extremely simple estate, so even if all the share certificates were missing I can't see why it should take more than a couple of months at the outside to obtain probate.

Yorkshire lad - you say "we had to wait 6 months from grant of probate to allow for any claim"

why is that please?

This is standard practice where the estate is not being inherited by the executors. It's because under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 there is a statutory time limit of 6 months for anyone who wants to make a claim under the Act to issue proceedings.

However, it's completely unnecessary to delay the administration where the executor is also the sole beneficiary, as in your case.

I'm aware of the Section 27 as a thing, but is it necessary - I'm not sure when solicitors do it or not. My mum inherits the estate.

I understand it's not needed as a legality but sometimes solicitors suggest it?

Again, it's good practice where the executors are not beneficiaries, as if they fail to pay a creditor they should have known about they are personally liable. However, as with an Inheritance Act claim there’s no point in wasting money on advertising when the executor’s the sole beneficiary.

Another problem just came up....we've been asked to get a valuation of the house for probate. My mother tried to call a local agent - I don't know if he heard the quavery voice and guessed it was for probate, but he basically said to her "I'm not coming round to do a valuation unless you're sure you're selling the house".

I told her not to call anyone else - probably easier if I do it - but I am wondering if the probate office or whoever it is will accept an online valuation?

I don’t understand why a valuation's needed at all - you said the house was in your mother's name, and so not part of the estate. What reason has the solicitor given for requesting this?

I’m always reluctant to criticise fellow practitioners, but after over 35 years experience I do know that there are plenty who are willing to take advantage of a situation like this. From what you’ve said the estate is really very simple, and the solicitor does seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill, so I can’t help wondering whether she’s deliberately exaggerating the problems and thereby ramping up the bill, knowing that your mother is unlikely to argue.

As a matter of interest, do you know what the solicitor’s estimate of the costs was? This would help determine whether they’re acting fairly or not.

[Sunnypad]

Thank you Clitheroe, that's really helpful, much appreciated.

The house was in joint names. The letter from the solicitor talks about getting 3 valuations from local agents - it might just be a standard letter. But having 3 sets of people come by and stress mum out even more doesn't seem a great plan. Plus also on here I saw tales of people being charged for the valuation if they were honest and said it was for probate, so slightly unsure what to do.

Shall we just say to the solicitor "here's 3 online estimates" - there's no IHT to pay?

Might be the solicitor's standard practice to cover themselves in some way.

really appreciate all the advice, thank you.

[yorkshirelad1]

Jabd

mum can't face doing any of it and she can afford the solicitor so that's fine. She is absolutely broken so I'm fine with her handling it this way. I just asked here because I was curious about how the solicitor would go about the process, but didn't want to ask the solicitor as I am not her client.

Yorkshire lad - you say "we had to wait 6 months from grant of probate to allow for any claim"

why is that please?

as Clitheroekid has also indicated (below, and thanks for quoting the legal chapter and verse: saves me having to dig it out), we (the exors) were advised to wait 6 months after grant of probate to allow for a claim from against the estate (we had an estranged/disinherited daughter and a nearly divorced estranged husband of the deceased who might have thought to try a claim but fortuantely didn't as all that would have done was rack up legal fees and probably deplete the assets of the estate; it wasn't my job to comment on whether they should claim or not, it was my job to look after the assets of the estate for the beneficiares); happily, the deceased had left clear reasons why those two parties were disinherited in the Will so I wasn't too worried but better safe than sorry. It wasn't really a problem to wait for 6 months after grant of probate as we had a house to sell, and couldn't do that until we had probate anayway, so that took up some of the 6 months waiting time.

IANAL

"disinherited": that's my layman's term, not sure if that's the correct legal term, but it conveys the idea.

[Sunnypad]

thanks yorkshire

that does sound complicated! hopefully with mum as beneficiary, the solicitor won't even suggest that - she certainly didn't mention it at the meeting, hence her optimistic (realistic?) sounding estimate on when probate might happen.