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Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

including wills and probate
Wondergirly
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Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199652

Postby Wondergirly » February 7th, 2019, 5:20 pm

Brief background, please ask if more information needed:

I have two stepchildren who lived with my husband and I for a great deal of their childhood. The eldest (stepson) now lives and works abroad, the youngest (stepdaughter) remained geographically (and emotionally) close to her mother. They also have a younger half brother, from a relationship that followed their mother's divorce from their father (my now husband).

So, mother (lets call her X) died last November, fairly suddenly, though my SS managed to make it home for her last hours. He returned to work soon after but came back for the funeral. He agreed with SD that she would deal with the estate, with the help of her half brother. SS would support them both from afar and fund anything necessary as and when needed (he paid for the funeral).

X left no will and very little paperwork of any use. SS was given the impression that SD was getting on with things and it was just taking a lot of time. He asked if I would help and support his siblings, so I started to get involved (with the agreement of them all). What was actually happening was that SD had just closed down her mother's bank account and pretty much done nothing else. The house was standing empty (and, as I discovered fairly quickly, uninsured). A lot of paperwork that WAS found, is in a binbag and was about to be taken to the tip.

Now, I am not unkind, they are grieving, but you can sense my exasperation. I have printed off all the forms and have given them basically one task a day (insure house, clear a room, find out if there is a mortgage), nothing too onerous, but it is like trying to plait fog.

Anyway, to get to my question!

In frustration at the lack of information on the ownership of the house and mortgage situation, I did a land registry search and got the title summary. It shows the following:

Lenders

Lord Chancellor
Legal Aid Agency 2 Recovery Services at P.O. Box 10620 Nottingham NG6 6DY
Lord Chancellor
324204 Nottingham 59
Lord Chancellor
RecoveryServices-Enquiries@legalaid.gsi.gov.uk

Youngest sibling did have a recent stay at Her Majesty's pleasure, and that is the only legal issue I am aware of (that doesn't mean there aren't more skeletons, obviously!) but why would there be a charge on his mothers' house? He probably was registered at that address at the time but the house is definitely in the sole name of his mother. He is going to ring and find out, though when he will get to it I do not know, but in the meantime, has anyone any idea what else it could be?

Many thanks for reading if you got this far.
W

PinkDalek
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199656

Postby PinkDalek » February 7th, 2019, 5:38 pm

Did the mother seek legal aid when divorcing from your now husband?

See the example under section 4 here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... let-v2.pdf

Wondergirly
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199677

Postby Wondergirly » February 7th, 2019, 6:54 pm

I hadn't considered that, it was well over 27 years ago! Is that at all likely, or even possible?

Wondergirly
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199678

Postby Wondergirly » February 7th, 2019, 6:56 pm

This is what it says in terms of dates:

This title was last changed on 13 June 2017 at 16:43:10

didds
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199797

Postby didds » February 8th, 2019, 8:46 am

Wondergirly wrote:This is what it says in terms of dates:

This title was last changed on 13 June 2017 at 16:43:10


does that date correlate with the HMP attendance in any way?

(you've probably already covered that yourself of course)

didds

Wondergirly
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199842

Postby Wondergirly » February 8th, 2019, 10:32 am

Thanks didds

It was around that time. I am still trying to understand though how a charge can be put on a property that the person lives at but doesn't own.

W

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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199850

Postby JonE » February 8th, 2019, 10:52 am

Wondergirly wrote:Thanks didds

It was around that time. I am still trying to understand though how a charge can be put on a property that the person lives at but doesn't own.

W

Was the guy a minor at the time or was a guarantor required such that his property-owning mother became involved? I'm suggesting that 'the person' involved in the charge was not him but her (so him having resided at that address is irrelevant).

Cheers!

Wondergirly
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199859

Postby Wondergirly » February 8th, 2019, 11:12 am

He was not a minor and was on benefits, if that is relevant.

Thanks

W

Clitheroekid
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#199975

Postby Clitheroekid » February 8th, 2019, 4:57 pm

The point about the son being in prison is a red herring, and has nothing to do with the entry at the Land Registry.

The reason for the registration is what's known as the `statutory charge', and illustrates the little understood fact that legal aid is essentially a loan, not a gift.

When someone is granted legal aid and recovers or preserves property as a result then if they can't recover their legal costs from their opponent their solicitors are paid out of the legal aid fund.

The legal aid authority is then entitled to impose the statutory charge on the property recovered / preserved, in order that they can recoup the money they've paid to the solicitors.

If the case is one where property has been preserved, usually a house, then the legal aid authorities recognise that it would be unreasonable to force the person to sell the house to repay the legal aid, and in that situation they will simply place a charge on the property. When the property is eventually sold then the statutory charge will have to be repaid (with interest).

So at some point the mother must have been granted legal aid, and by far the most likely explanation is that she received it in respect of her divorce. It was readily available 27 years ago, though it isn't now.

The proposed administrator of the estate therefore needs to write to the legal aid recovery section and find out how much was owed at the date of death. If it's been accumulating interest for 27 years it may well be an alarming amount, as I understand the current rate being charged is an outrageous 8% p.a.

Wondergirly
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#200497

Postby Wondergirly » February 11th, 2019, 10:54 am

Thanks CK, (and PinkDalek) you have cracked it I think. It was definitely nothing to do with the court case of the youngest. We have supplied the information the legal aid dept. asked for and await the details and amount of the charge.

W

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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#200502

Postby Wondergirly » February 11th, 2019, 11:01 am

Further question; is there a way I can act on behalf of my stepson? The two youngest are being increasingly cagey about handing over paperwork and he is concerned they are not getting on with anything.

W

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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#200528

Postby Clitheroekid » February 11th, 2019, 12:25 pm

Wondergirly wrote:Further question; is there a way I can act on behalf of my stepson?

Assuming the half brother is also a child of the deceased then in the absence of a Will both he and your stepchildren have an equal right to apply for Letters of Administration to their mother's estate.

This means that either one of them - or two or three of them - can make the application.

It also means that either one of them can appoint an attorney to make the application on their behalf. So there is nothing to prevent your stepson from granting you a POA to act on his behalf so that you can make the application for Letters of Administration.

So far as the information gathering exercise is concerned then strictly speaking none of the children has any legal authority to require information in this situation. If there's a Will, the executor has legal authority to act as from the date of death, but this does not apply in the case of intestacy, as by definition anyone making enquiries is merely a proposed administrator, and they have no legal authority to act on behalf of the estate unless and until their appointment is confirmed by the court in granting them Letters of Administration.

In theory, therefore, the legal aid authorities could refuse to release any information until Letters of Administration have been granted.

In practice, however, banks and other institutions take a pragmatic view and will normally release such information to a proposed administrator of the estate. Consequently, if your stepson, as the proposed administrator, were to grant you a POA you should be able to acquire the necessary information on the same basis.

Wondergirly
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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#200532

Postby Wondergirly » February 11th, 2019, 12:30 pm

My stepson is keen for me to act for him, but given he is in Dubai and I am in the UK, I haven't a clue where to start :?: He isn't planning on being back in the UK any time soon.

W

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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#200559

Postby Clitheroekid » February 11th, 2019, 2:05 pm

Wondergirly wrote:My stepson is keen for me to act for him, but given he is in Dubai and I am in the UK, I haven't a clue where to start :?: He isn't planning on being back in the UK any time soon.

There's no reason he can't sign a POA in Dubai that you can use in the UK. Once you have the POA then there's no real need for him to have any further involvement.

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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#200768

Postby Wondergirly » February 12th, 2019, 9:41 am

Stepson currently pursuing a POA to allow me to deal with the estate on his behalf as siblings are proving to be economical with the truth on a number of issues. Thanks all.

W

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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#201065

Postby Wondergirly » February 13th, 2019, 12:36 pm

Having now spoken to the probate office, it seems we do not need a poa after all. I can apply for the letters of administration in my name, and attach a covering letter, signed by the three children, giving me permission to act on their behalf.

She seemed certain about this, it seems an easy way to get on with things. Can it be that simple?

W

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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#201081

Postby dionaeamuscipula » February 13th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Wondergirly wrote:Having now spoken to the probate office, it seems we do not need a poa after all. I can apply for the letters of administration in my name, and attach a covering letter, signed by the three children, giving me permission to act on their behalf.

She seemed certain about this, it seems an easy way to get on with things. Can it be that simple?

W


A letter from the three children giving you permission to act on their behalf *is* a power of attorney, just not a formal one.

DM

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Re: Helping stepchildren deal with death of mother

#229983

Postby Wondergirly » June 16th, 2019, 6:01 pm

Just to tie this thread up.

The advice I was given by the probate office proved useless. I sent in all the forms, along with a letter from the three children giving me permission to act on their behalf, exactly as the probate office advised me (on two separate occasions in fact).

A couple of weeks later, I received a letter from them asking that a form be completed, to be signed by the children. They enclosed the form, which I then had to post off to Dubai for the eldest to sign. Given Dubai do not have what we would recognise as a post office, it took quite some trouble to get it returned but we did eventually manage it. I then posted it off to the probate office and finally received the letters of administration about a month later than we otherwise would have.

So, don't trust what they tell you on the phone.

W


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