Best info for DIY will writing.

[Parky]

Mrs P and I want to update our wills. Very simple, IHT nil rate amount to children, balance to spouse. Can anyone suggest a source of legally correct but plain English wording?

[UncleIan]

No, wait for Free Will week (or month) or whatever it is, and get a professional to do it. Please.

[pochisoldi]

Seconded - pay £100 now and save your children from having to spend £100's sorting out resulting problems when you're no longer with us.

Such advice would also give you the pros and cons of using up the nil rate band on the first death vs "all to spouse" and then having a double NRB on the second death.

[88V8]

Went to Peru in '84. Shining Path active, suddenly thought the day before 'oops no will'.
Will form from Smiths, wrote it out.

Thirty-five years later it has graduated from DIY scribble to DIY text, but still much the same ramblings though our estate has grown ten-fold.
Really ought to get it done professionally.

DIY may be OK as a stop-gap, but the temporary has a habit of becoming permanent.

V8

[Chrysalis]

What is the reason for nil rate band to children? You know that the nil rate band is now transferable between spouses?

[Chrysalis]

Frankly if your estate is well over nil rate band (as I assume it must be, if you can afford to give away that much and be confident surviving spouse has enough) then you really should get it done professionally. You can afford it, won’t cost more than a few £100s.

[Clitheroekid]

Mrs P and I want to update our wills. Very simple, IHT nil rate amount to children, balance to spouse. Can anyone suggest a source of legally correct but plain English wording?

Do you specifically want to leave the exact amount of £325k to your children? If you do, fair enough, but it seems a remarkable coincidence that it should be just the right amount for your and their needs.

I hope you haven't selected that amount because you think it will avoid `wasting' one of your nil rate bands. Since any unused NRB could be transferred to the surviving spouse leaving this sum to your children may well make no difference to the amount of tax payable on the second death.

Assuming your children are adults have you considered making lifetime gifts to them? If you do so and then survive for a further 7 years (or are placed in the freezer till the 7 years has expired!) the value of the gifts is taken out of your estate altogether, and that would reduce the tax bill on the second death substantially. Plus you will have the inestimable joy of watching your progeny squandering your hard-earned loot.

To answer your question, I had to dig into my archives, as I've not inserted such a clause in a Will for over 10 years. However, this was the wording that I used:

0.1 I give to my children (names) in equal shares absolutely a legacy of an amount equal to the Nil Rate Sum as defined in clause 0.2 below
0.2 ‘The Nil Rate Sum’ means a sum equal to the amount which is the upper limit at the date of my death of the first band of value (‘the nil rate band’) shown in the Table referred to in the Inheritance Tax Act 1984 Section 7 (or any modification or re-enactment of it) which applies to determine rates of tax on death less the total of:
0.2.1 such part of the value transferred in respect of my estate as is attributable to property (other than the legacy given by this clause) with respect to which the transfer of value on my death is chargeable as opposed to exempt and
0.2.2 the value transferred by chargeable transfers made or deemed to be made by me within the period of 7 years immediately preceding my death (including potentially exempt transfers which become chargeable transfers)
0.3 Words and expressions used in clause 0.2 of this will shall bear the same meanings as in the Inheritance Tax Act 1984 save where the context otherwise requires

Well you did ask!

It perhaps goes without saying that I have only provided this wording because you specifically requested it. I do NOT recommend that you attempt to use it in making your Wills, and I would strongly recommend that you take competent professional advice and have your Wills prepared by someone qualified to do so.

[mc2fool]

No, wait for Free Will week (or month) or whatever it is, and get a professional to do it. Please.

Starts tomorrow! https://freewillsmonth.org.uk/

[JohnB]

And if less than 55, Willaid month is November. https://www.willaid.org.uk/

[Parky]

Thanks all for your responses.
UncleIan. I tried FreeWillMonth website but there is no-one in this area offering the service.

Pochisoldi and Jabd2001. I cannot forsee any problems with such a simple will if it is written in plain English. I begrudge paying £hundreds for a cut and paste job. Just my background and character I suppose.

Pochisoldi ,Clitheroekid and Jabd2001. Yes I know about transferable nil rate band. It just seems better to me to transfer the money to the next generation when it is no longer needed by this one. They seem to be much better at spending it than I am.

Clitheroekid. Thanks for the comprehensive reply. If I decide to continue with my plan to give the nil-rate band amount to my children, I think I will just put the amount of £325000 in my will and do a rewrite if the amount goes up significantly ( IHT is under review by the government at the moment I understand). Also I believe I am up-to-date with the lifetime gifts rules, and indeed I have used them already.
Incidentally, is the legal date of death when you actually die or when the doc is called to provide a death certificate? I have terrible visions of people in freezers trying to avoid IHT.

88V8. I am roughly in the same position as you (although I haven't been to Peru), but I don't agree that I ought to get it done professionally. Why pay to make a simple job more complicated?

[UncleIan]

I cannot forsee any problems with such a simple will if it is written in plain English. I begrudge paying £hundreds for a cut and paste job. Just my background and character I suppose.

I seem to recall a solicitor saying their first toast at the local annual legals Christmas dinner was always "to home made wills!" on the grounds I guess that they generally made more money for the legal profession than someone coming to them and getting it done properly in the first place.

But hey, I'm just a bloke on the internet, it may save you hundreds, it may then cost your kids thousands, tens of thousands, if you don't get it right. Of course, not your problem by that point.

How about some "Free and impartial money advice, set up by government"...

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/e ... ed-to-know

and also...

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/famil ... lls/wills/

[dionaeamuscipula]

Pochisoldi and Jabd2001. I cannot forsee any problems with such a simple will if it is written in plain English. I begrudge paying £hundreds for a cut and paste job. Just my background and character I suppose.

My estate will be pretty simple too, and its all going to my partner, then kids. But the couple of hundred pounds I spent with a solicitor to get properly thought out wills done for wife and I, I consider to be money extremely well spent. And I have famously short arms and deep pockets.

DM

[yorkshirelad1]

Mrs P and I want to update our wills. Very simple, IHT nil rate amount to children, balance to spouse. Can anyone suggest a source of legally correct but plain English wording?

as others have said, get it done by a legal professional; it'll save money in the long run.
at the same time, consider getting a power of attorney done; you probably think you won't need one now, but by the time you do need it, it'll probably be too late to do one.

Will: something you will need
power of attorney: something you hope you won't need, but will be grateful you did it it you ever need it.

IANAL

[Garless]

Simple example, for family reasons we take parents name first followed by preferred name and surname. So when my mothers will was being processed I had to pay a solicitor to witness a document that my mother knew me by my second name P.... But I was actually A.... P.... If in doubt get advice because it will cost you or your children.

[pochisoldi]

Pochisoldi and Jabd2001. I cannot forsee any problems with such a simple will if it is written in plain English. I begrudge paying £hundreds for a cut and paste job. Just my background and character I suppose.

Plain English
Where I come from, breakfast is taken in the morning, lunch around midday, dinner when you get home from work, and supper some time after the soaps have finished on the telly.

Meanwhile, further south, it's breakfast, dinner, tea and supper.

So depending on where you come from, in plain english "dinner" could be eaten at 12 noon or 5pm.

Fortunately, dead people don't eat much.

The problem with a will is that by the time the will comes to be used, the person who can tell you "what they meant" is dead.
In the case of mirror wills written for a couple, that time usually arrives after the second death, when neither is a available to tell you what they meant.

I begrudge paying £hundreds for a cut and paste job.

I would begrudge my executors being forced to pay £thousands from my estate to a solicitor to administer my estate, because I was too tight to get a proper will. IMHO it adds a whole new angle to the term "dead money".

PochiSoldi

[Eboli]

Parky said:

Yes I know about transferable nil rate band. It just seems better to me to transfer the money to the next generation when it is no longer needed by this one.

One things worth remembering is that it is NOT the amount on the first death that is transferred but rather the percentage of the then nil-rate band that was unused. So you benefit from any uplifting meanwhile. So if at the first death the nil-rate band is £325K and all of that is unused and if say on the second death the nil rate band has increased to £500K then the transferable amount is £500K not £325K.

Eb.

[Parky]

Mrs P and I want to update our wills. Very simple, IHT nil rate amount to children, balance to spouse. Can anyone suggest a source of legally correct but plain English wording?

Because of the amount and volume of advice against DIY wills, I had the existing (DIY) wills checked by a professional will writer from a firm of solicitors, with a view to having it re-written if necessary, and she said the existing ones were perfectly OK. Not a waste of time however, as it has given me peace of mind. Thank you all for your comments.

[scrumpyjack]

One reason for using the nil rate band on the first death is that the surviving spouse may then marry someone else, predeceases the second husband and it turns out that everything goes to him/her, and his/hers children!
The first will of course automatically becomes invalid on the second marriage.

[Chrysalis]

One problem with the nil rate band scenario is that it gives someone else part ownership of your home.
With the second spouse issue, then the surviving spouse just has to be trusted to write their next will to leave something to the children. I am sure most would. You can't control much when you are dead lets face it!

[jackdaww]

One problem with the nil rate band scenario is that it gives someone else part ownership of your home.
With the second spouse issue, then the surviving spouse just has to be trusted to write their next will to leave something to the children. I am sure most would. You can't control much when you are dead lets face it!

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never underestimate the propensity for people to change their minds , and find endless justifications for doing so , when there is money involved.