Just found out neighbour is using a bit of my land (not a problem, just want to sort it)

[Satsuma]

I happened to be looking at land boundaries recently.

It shows a small triangle of land poking out the side of my driveway. From the kerbside you'd assume it was my neighbour's land as its directly in front of their property, and indeed they have planted it and used it as theirs too.

But looking to the future, I'm wondering if an eagle-eyed conveyancer could potentially cause an issue during a purchase/sale. It's small, probably <1m2 total, and neither use nor ornament to me, so I'd be more than happy to just 'sign it over' to them (to clarify, it's not any kind of "ransom strip" issue)

Q1: Should I even worry? It is visible on the standard sized LR plan, but not excessively - I was looking at a much enlarged scale version where it is quite apparent.
Q2. If so, what do I do about it? Next door is rented out. I think I have the owner's contact info somewhere as she lived here herself beforehand, or I know the letting agent as well.

TIA
Sats

[Avantegarde]

On the assumption that the small parcel of land really has no value or utility to you, but is of some utility to your neighbour, you could drop them a line asking them if they would like to buy it from you for, say, £50. It may not be an issue to you now, but as you say a future buyer of your property may ask for the land to be "handed back".

[Watis]

On the assumption that the small parcel of land really has no value or utility to you, but is of some utility to your neighbour, you could drop them a line asking them if they would like to buy it from you for, say, £50. It may not be an issue to you now, but as you say a future buyer of your property may ask for the land to be "handed back".

But won't the sale of the land require changes to the deeds of both properties? And at what expense?

I suggest asking for £50,000 - to encourage the neighbour to return the land to you and avoid all legal hassles now and in the future.

IANAL

Watis

[jackdaww]

how long has your neighbour been planting on it ?

[Lootman]

I've done this from the perspective of the other side.

The house next to me was empty for about three years and there was a parcel of its land that was more useful to me than them. So I started cultivating it. I did not fence it off but by the time I had finished landscaping it and planting it, it looked much more like my garden than his.

Eventually the property sold and nobody noticed the anomaly. In fact the new owner put up fences which effectively sealed off his access to this piece of land. There has been no issue since - people tend to assume that fences denote property lines.

It's not a huge area, perhaps 20 square metres. If the issue comes up I won't deny anything, and simply state the truth - that the area had been neglected and was a potential nuisance, and so I took over management of it.

Finally there is a law of adverse possession, that says that if you use a property or part thereof for long enough, without challenge, then it becomes yours.

[taylor20]

Having just sold a property with two such triangles of land I suspect they are quite common (just the left over bits from the parcelling up of the land). During my sale (or my previous purchase) they were never mentioned, mine in fact (like yours) would in fact make much more sense being part of the neighbours property.

I suspect If it was the other way around might make sale/purchase more difficult, i.e. you are using a bit of land that is not part of your deeds.

Normally the property is marketed for sale using the visible boundary so I doubt it would affect a sale from that point of view.

I suppose if some services (water, gas, electric, telephones) went through the land then it might be worth change of ownership?

[Satsuma]

On the assumption that the small parcel of land really has no value or utility to you, but is of some utility to your neighbour, you could drop them a line asking them if they would like to buy it from you for, say, £50. It may not be an issue to you now, but as you say a future buyer of your property may ask for the land to be "handed back".

It's of no utility to either of us really. They can have it for £0 AFAIAC - for the cost of any LR admin.

I have tried to 'draw' it here:

Road and public footpath runs along the front of our houses
My garden is the commas
My driveway is the D
_x_/ is the random extra bit
Next door driveway is ND
Next door garden is the full stops. They have a line of shrubs going up my drive and then long the front next to the pathway, which includes the _x_/ corner

Road
=========================
Public footpath
=========================
,,,,,,,| D |_x_/......|ND|
,,,,,,,| D |............|ND|
,,,,,,,| D |............|ND|
,,,,,,,| D |............|ND|

[Satsuma]

But won't the sale of the land require changes to the deeds of both properties? And at what expense?

I suggest asking for £50,000 - to encourage the neighbour to return the land to you and avoid all legal hassles now and in the future.

IANAL

Watis

That's my query - how to satisfy Land Registry in future case of any future issue.
I don't want/need it back, so why would I want to ask for £50,000?

how long has your neighbour been planting on it ?

I think they planted the shrubs about 8-10 years ago?

It's not a huge area, perhaps 20 square metres. If the issue comes up I won't deny anything, and simply state the truth - that the area had been neglected and was a potential nuisance, and so I took over management of it.

Finally there is a law of adverse possession, that says that if you use a property or part thereof for long enough, without challenge, then it becomes yours.

This is perhaps 10% of that at most, in a stupid anomalous "spike" out of my land. It is not neglected and is fronts onto the path (see my excellent illustration in pp )
All I want to do is clear things up with Land Reg, not get in some pointless exercise of adverse possession and legalese.

Having just sold a property with two such triangles of land I suspect they are quite common (just the left over bits from the parcelling up of the land). During my sale (or my previous purchase) they were never mentioned, mine in fact (like yours) would in fact make much more sense being part of the neighbours property.

I suspect If it was the other way around might make sale/purchase more difficult, i.e. you are using a bit of land that is not part of your deeds.

Normally the property is marketed for sale using the visible boundary so I doubt it would affect a sale from that point of view.

I suppose if some services (water, gas, electric, telephones) went through the land then it might be worth change of ownership?

Yes it does make more sense for it to be theirs. The edge of my paved driveway is clearly visible and this little bit just pokes off, and was/is/always has been lawn/soft garden. It also visually aligns with their house building too.

I've no idea re services underground. But again, that is another factor why I'd like the LR plot to be clear.

I don't want to profit, I don't want to cause ill will, I don't want this stupid spike of land. Most of all I don't want future buyer to spot it and be concerned for any reason.

[PinkDalek]

All I want to do is clear things up with Land Reg, not get in some pointless exercise of adverse possession and legalese.

The laws on adverse possession changed in 2002 or thereabouts (in the land owners' favour as against what apparently used to happen) and that is why it is relevant. As I understand it, if they do not write to the Land Registry formally to seek possession (after 10 years of adverse possession), upon which the Land Registry would contact the legal owner (you), then it is of little relevance. Any potential purchaser's solicitors would know the position.

If you want to gift the parcel of land to them that is a different matter. I doubt there's anything the Land Registry would do if you merely want them to change the Title Plan without such a gift and formal transfer, as there would not appear to have been a mistake.

Registered title(s): part transfer (TP1)
English Cymraeg
Form TP1 to transfer part of a registered title.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ansfer-tp1 may be worth reading if you wish to go down that route.

Hopefully Clitheroekid will be along in due course ...

[pochisoldi]

The Land registry recommends using 1:2500 for plans in rural areas, and between 1:2500 and 1:500 in urban areas.

At those scales, a 0.5mm line could cover a strip 25cm wide in an urban area, and 1.25m in a rural area.

Is a prospective purchaser (or their conveyancer) going to spot it?

I would let sleeping dogs lie - they have a habit of biting you when you wake them up unnecessarily.

[Satsuma]

The laws on adverse possession changed in 2002 or thereabouts (in the land owners' favour as against what apparently used to happen) and that is why it is relevant. As I understand it, if they do not write to the Land Registry formally to seek possession (after 10 years of adverse possession), upon which the Land Registry would contact the legal owner (you), then it is of little relevance. Any potential purchaser's solicitors would know the position.

If you want to gift the parcel of land to them that is a different matter. I doubt there's anything the Land Registry would do if you merely want them to change the Title Plan without such a gift and formal transfer, as there would not appear to have been a mistake.

Registered title(s): part transfer (TP1)
English Cymraeg
Form TP1 to transfer part of a registered title.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ansfer-tp1 may be worth reading if you wish to go down that route.

Hopefully Clitheroekid will be along in due course ...

Thanks for the info PD. It does seem to get more and more complex the longer I look at it.

The Land registry recommends using 1:2500 for plans in rural areas, and between 1:2500 and 1:500 in urban areas.

At those scales, a 0.5mm line could cover a strip 25cm wide in an urban area, and 1.25m in a rural area.

Is a prospective purchaser (or their conveyancer) going to spot it?

I would let sleeping dogs lie - they have a habit of biting you when you wake them up unnecessarily.

....Which now makes me inclined to take Pochi's view. I can see the mark on the standard LR plan I downloaded for my home, but (a) how many people actually look at it so closely; and (b) from the kerbside, there is no way you'd ever conjure up the notion of this bit of land belonged to me!

[Gaggsy]

I would let sleeping dogs lie - they have a habit of biting you when you wake them up unnecessarily.

I agree. I wondered why it exists and now that you say that it's next to the boundary, there could be a few reasons why it was created.

Perhaps there are underground services - a drain pipe or incoming electric, gas, water or telecoms - that turn into your property on that corner? Read the recent thread about a difficult neighbour wanting a drainpipe removed.

Or perhaps it's there for sightlines of oncoming traffic or pedestrians? Owning that little corner could help you prevent your neighbour building a brick pier or planting an obstructing tree.

Gaggsy

[Clitheroekid]

I'd advise you just to ignore it completely!

From a common sense point of view, you're the only person to be aware of it and it's causing you no practical difficulties. When either you or your neighbour come to sell the house it's extremely unlikely that the prospective buyer will notice it. The solicitors won't know because they won't personally inspect the boundaries, so I can't see that attempting to resolve it legally will benefit anyone.

If you do insist on trying to resolve it you have immediately created a potential boundary dispute that both you and your neighbour will have to declare to any prospective buyer. Consequently, once the can of worms is opened you can't close it again, and will be committed to seeing it through.

This will involve a conveyancing process, which would mean having a very detailed large scale plan prepared to the exacting standards imposed by LR (which probably means employing a surveyor) and having a formal transfer document prepared. This would then have to be registered against both titles, so you're quite possibly looking at around £1,000 in legal / surveying costs between you to achieve nothing of any use.

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

[Lootman]

The solicitors won't know because they won't personally inspect the boundaries

Yes, I have never known that happen and it always surprised me. Even my insurance chap came to physically view the property and took pictures. But conveyancers? Never.

And as I mentioned in my earlier anecdote, in a similar situation the house next door completed without anyone noticing or caring about the fact that I had purloined a strip of their land.

[quelquod]

The solicitors won't know because they won't personally inspect the boundaries

Yes, I have never known that happen and it always surprised me. Even my insurance chap came to physically view the property and took pictures. But conveyancers? Never.

And as I mentioned in my earlier anecdote, in a similar situation the house next door completed without anyone noticing or caring about the fact that I had purloined a strip of their land.

Similar case (not quite and in Scotland) our second house, on a corner, had its garage at the inboard side at the bottom and the drive then left an odd-shaped area right on the corner inside the curve of the footpath. Presumably the council’s it irritated me because the council workmen seemed to assume it wasn’t theirs and didn’t cut the grass. So I purloined it and planted shrubs and a privet hedge around. No one ever bothered although the deeds clearly show the correct boundary. I’ve passed that way often and it’s still like that though the hedge is well established now so I suppose that it’s survived a few changes of ownership with no conveyancing or other difficulties.

[Satsuma]

I'd advise you just to ignore it completely!

From a common sense point of view, you're the only person to be aware of it and it's causing you no practical difficulties. When either you or your neighbour come to sell the house it's extremely unlikely that the prospective buyer will notice it. The solicitors won't know because they won't personally inspect the boundaries, so I can't see that attempting to resolve it legally will benefit anyone.

If you do insist on trying to resolve it you have immediately created a potential boundary dispute that both you and your neighbour will have to declare to any prospective buyer. Consequently, once the can of worms is opened you can't close it again, and will be committed to seeing it through.

This will involve a conveyancing process, which would mean having a very detailed large scale plan prepared to the exacting standards imposed by LR (which probably means employing a surveyor) and having a formal transfer document prepared. This would then have to be registered against both titles, so you're quite possibly looking at around £1,000 in legal / surveying costs between you to achieve nothing of any use.

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

Well, the overwhelming consensus is that i am worrying over nothing, and now we have the expert opinion as well, so I will put it to the back of my mind and worry not a jot further on it.

Thank you all very much indeed for helping me understand the practicalities of the situation.

Now, back to a relaxing Sunday of updating budgets and more mundane household admin and organisation - once a Foolish LBYMer, always a Foolish LBYMer!

Sats