Quick Justice

[swill453]

The bloke who stole nearly a million quid from his own employer's (G4S) security van on Tuesday has already been caught, charged, appeared in magistrate's court, pled guilty and been convicted of theft by employee.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48053152

Seems pretty quick work all round, is this normal?

Scott.

[tango2082]

Hi,

Not a criminal mastermind by the sounds of it - he obviously left enough clues to lead the Police straight to him, and once arrested either the evidence was overwhelming, or he gave a 'full and frank' (Confessed all). There was enough evidence to charge straight away, and he was remanded to appear in front of the next available court.

It's not excessively fast for a case where the evidence is clear - Police can only hold someone for 24h without requesting an extension in exceptional circumstances, by the end of that time they much charge or release. Given the amount involved a remand to Court isn't too surprising.

Regards
Tango

[Lootman]

Not a criminal mastermind by the sounds of it - he obviously left enough clues to lead the Police straight to him, and once arrested either the evidence was overwhelming, or he gave a 'full and frank' (Confessed all). There was enough evidence to charge straight away, and he was remanded to appear in front of the next available court.

Whatever the evidence the usual advice is to admit nothing, keep your mouth shut and get a lawyer.

Seems to me this guy must have gone into a blind panic. There is always a chance of getting off on a technicality no matter what the "evidence".

So yes, dumb in more than one way.

[swill453]

Whatever the evidence the usual advice is to admit nothing, keep your mouth shut and get a lawyer.

Seems to me this guy must have gone into a blind panic. There is always a chance of getting off on a technicality no matter what the "evidence".

So yes, dumb in more than one way.

Obviously I don't know much about this case, but the fact it's been tried in a magistrate's court must mean it's being treated as a relatively minor offence. Theft of a million quid I'd imagine could have been treated much more harshly at crown court.

So maybe he "copped a plea" and is going to be sentenced on the basis of the three and sixpence he actually spent, rather than the million pound theft he could have got done for.

Scott.

[didds]

back when I were a lad etc and I did British Government O-Level, ISTR that all crimes appear at a magistrates court at least initially... including "indictable" crimes (summat about meaning potential prison terms of > 5 years or something).

Anyway, ISTR that its usual to appear at a magistrate's court to be indicted to a higher court eg crown court.

I note from the ink that "... admitted theft by employee at Camberwell Green Magistrates' Court. He will be sentenced at a later date."

That sentencing may in effect be from a crown court ... ??

didds

PS Mr. Edmonds would be proud of me [ BG teacher!]

[Itsallaguess]

The bloke who stole nearly a million quid from his own employer's (G4S) security van on Tuesday has already been caught, charged, appeared in magistrate's court, pled guilty and been convicted of theft by employee.

Not so hasty - there's time yet....

How's he getting transported to the prison?

Itsallaguess

[staffordian]

Unless I've misunderstood the story, he has not yet been sentenced.

Is it not possible that the case might be referred to Crown Court for sentencing as magistrates are relatively limited in that direction?

Edit: just noticed didds made the same point. Great minds...

[swill453]

Yes other reports of the case say he's to appear at Inner London Crown Court for sentencing. I presume he was advised that he will receive one third off the possible sentence* for pleading guilty at the earliest possible opportunity.

* - relative to pleading not guilty.

Scott.

[Lootman]

he's to appear at Inner London Crown Court for sentencing. I presume he was advised that he will receive one third off the possible sentence* for pleading guilty at the earliest possible opportunity.

* - relative to pleading not guilty.

Advised by whom? The prosecution? It doesn't seem to me that he had the time to seek any independent advice.

The prosecution may offer a discount on sentence so as not to have to go to trial. That is a feature of any plea bargain of course. But the defendant might still have done better if he had kept silent, retained counsel and indicated that he will fight this all the way.

Capitulating like that is not advisable in my view. Make the prosecution work for it.

[swill453]

The prosecution may offer a discount on sentence so as not to have to go to trial. That is a feature of any plea bargain of course. But the defendant might still have done better if he had kept silent, retained counsel and indicated that he will fight this all the way.

Capitulating like that is not advisable in my view. Make the prosecution work for it.

It's not really a "plea bargain" as you might get in, say, the USA. It's more or less an automatic right to a reduction, as specified in the sentencing guidelines, if you plead guilty at the the earliest opportunity.

(The advice I assumed was from his lawyer, though as I've said I have no specific knowledge of this.)

Scott.

[tango2082]

* - relative to pleading not guilty.[/quote]
Advised by whom? The prosecution? It doesn't seem to me that he had the time to seek any independent advice.

The prosecution may offer a discount on sentence so as not to have to go to trial. That is a feature of any plea bargain of course. But the defendant might still have done better if he had kept silent, retained counsel and indicated that he will fight this all the way.

Capitulating like that is not advisable in my view. Make the prosecution work for it.[/quote]


He would've been offered a Solicitor prior to being interviewed, if he knows one he can request them, if he doesn't then he would be given the 'duty' solicitor free of charge. It's illegal to interview anyone without them being absolutely clear they can seek free and independent advice prior to the interview, and if it happened then the interview would be inadmissible in court.

All cases start at a Magistrates Court - from shoplifting to Murder, however as pointed out, they have lesser sentencing powers, I would imagine the Magistrate will adjourn and remand to a Crown Court for a greater sentence.

Regards
Tango

[tango2082]

Just seen this...

https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/26/moment-p ... 0-9321905/

The last sentence confirms he will appear at Crown Court for sentencing. Sounds like the Police haven't yet recovered all the cash, they'll likely make some sort of proceeds of crime order to return the money, and if he fails to pay it back, years can be added to the sentence.