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Selling shares whilst working through Probate.

including wills and probate
flyer61
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Selling shares whilst working through Probate.

#218629

Postby flyer61 » May 1st, 2019, 8:10 am

Hoping someone can enlighten me on trying to sort things for my Mother in Law and her children. I am an executor of my Father in Law's will along with a solicitor and my Brother in Law.

My Father in Law recently died and left everything to his wife (my Mother in Law). She has dementia. My Mother in Law's three children have power of attorney over their mother for all matters. A substantial sum of shares in a FTSE250 company make the bulk of her inheritance. They were/are jointly owned with her deceased husband.

The three children agree that the shares should be sold as Care home fees loom. How do I go about this? Do I have to send a death certificate to the share registry? Sadly they are in paper format so there will be no click of a button to resolve. Any thoughts gratefully received?

swill453
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Re: Selling shares whilst working through Probate.

#218633

Postby swill453 » May 1st, 2019, 8:35 am

If they are genuinely jointly owned then they're nothing to do with the will/inheritance.

I'd imagine the children with their POA could sell them at any time.

Scott.

flyer61
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Re: Selling shares whilst working through Probate.

#218634

Postby flyer61 » May 1st, 2019, 8:38 am

Thanks Scott, the share certificates have both names on. Mother in Law only has a current account, maybe her bank could sell them for her. We will ask.

dionaeamuscipula
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Re: Selling shares whilst working through Probate.

#218657

Postby dionaeamuscipula » May 1st, 2019, 9:38 am

flyer61 wrote:Thanks Scott, the share certificates have both names on. Mother in Law only has a current account, maybe her bank could sell them for her. We will ask.


Banks are generally a poor choice for selling shares, especially if it is a substantial amount. They are likely to do a poor job and cost a lot.

Your first call should be to the company's registrars. Details of who they are will be shown in their most recent annual accounts. If you call, ask for their specialist bereavement department.

The registrars will be able to tell you what is required, if anything, to bring the shares to a point of being sellable. This might, for example, be dependent on which of the two names in joint ownership appears first on the registrar.

Once the registered ownership is sorted out, you can appoint a broker. There are a few dealing with private clients (search "private client stockbrokers"). Killik, Redmayne Bentley, Charles Stanley, Hargreaves Lansdown, are all well known names but not recommendations. Or you can use an online only execution only broker such as Selftrade, who will help with getting the certificated shares transfered.

https://www.londonstockexchange.com/pri ... n-only.htm

The best course will depend to a certain extent on what you mean by a "substantial sum". Above £250k is the level at which some brokers will show interest.

DM

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Re: Selling shares whilst working through Probate.

#218659

Postby fisher » May 1st, 2019, 9:44 am

A lower cost way than asking your bank would be to use an online execution broker. Ive used x-o.co.uk to do something similar for my mother but in that case the share certificate was in her name only. You post the certificate to them with a single page form saying you want to transfer the shares into her trading account and they are in there in a week or so ready for you to sell for £5.95 dealing fee.

You would have to apply for a trading account for her first but this only takes a few minutes to apply and is all up and running in a couple of days.

As far as the shares being in joint names goes i think you might have to send a death certificate in. Give them a ring and ask. I have found them prompt to amswer and helpful when i have had to ring in the past.

Clitheroekid
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Re: Selling shares whilst working through Probate.

#218968

Postby Clitheroekid » May 2nd, 2019, 1:44 pm

As has been said, because the shares were in joint names they should be transferred into your MIL's sole name if you lodge an original death certificate with the registrars for the company.

With regard to selling them it's usually possible to do so through the registrars. Most of them, such as Equiniti and Computershare, offer this facility. It's simple and convenient, but if the holding is substantial it's a very expensive way of selling.

For example, Computershare charge 1% + £35. If the holding's only worth £1,000 it would cost £45 to sell it, which is expensive compared to an online broker's charge of a few pounds. However, the difference isn't worth bothering about, and it's worth paying the extra just for the convenience.

But if the holding is worth, say, £250,000, the charge would be £2,535, whereas the online broker's charge would still be only a few pounds. It would therefore make sense to go through the hassle of opening an online account simply to sell the shares and save the £2,500.

A substantial sum of shares in a FTSE 250 company make the bulk of her inheritance.

Just check whether or not a grant of probate is actually needed for the rest of her estate. If it only consists of a couple of bank accounts with a few thousand quid in them it should be possible to close them and withdraw the money without probate.

The reason I specifically mention it is that you say a solicitor is one of the executors. One would hope that if probate could be avoided he would say so, but I'm aware that some solicitors would say that probate was needed when it wasn't simply so they could charge for obtaining it.

dionaeamuscipula
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Re: Selling shares whilst working through Probate.

#219030

Postby dionaeamuscipula » May 2nd, 2019, 5:39 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:
With regard to selling them it's usually possible to do so through the registrars. Most of them, such as Equiniti and Computershare, offer this facility. It's simple and convenient, but if the holding is substantial it's a very expensive way of selling.


I didn't mention the possibility of trading through the registrar because in my limited experience they are (a) expensive and (b) useless. Plus the ones of which I have much experience are also experts at unbundling on a par with RyanAir.

DM


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