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Statement of Means

including wills and probate
terminal7
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Statement of Means

#239886

Postby terminal7 » July 28th, 2019, 9:51 am

I have been charged with contravening a local traffic order from the Met by exceeding a 20 mph - under a single justice procedure notice. I have just received all the paperwork and intend to plead guilty as charged - on line. However, the forms include a MC10. The information required is detailed re income and expenditure and some detail of the OH's income (not even in the car at the time!). Do I have to compete this form? It is totally intrusive regarding my cash flow, total savings etc. Is there a means testing element to the scale of fine? I have no problem in accepting my guilt - but why should I supply the Met with a raft of financial information?

T7

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Re: Statement of Means

#239891

Postby PinkDalek » July 28th, 2019, 10:30 am

terminal7 wrote:... However, the forms include a MC10. The information required is detailed re income and expenditure and some detail of the OH's income (not even in the car at the time!). Do I have to compete this form? It is totally intrusive regarding my cash flow, total savings etc. Is there a means testing element to the scale of fine? ...


I can't find an MC10 online - only an MC100:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 00-eng.pdf

It includes "The rest of the information in the outgoing section is only relevant if you are unable to make payment in full on the day".

I've no idea what happens if you don't fill in the "Other information" section but you'll have seen:

It is an offence not to provide the court with a statement of assets and other financial circumstances following an official request. When providing the court with a statement of your assets and financial circumstances following a request, it is an offence: • to make a false statement • to knowingly fail to disclose material facts and In deciding the amount of any fines or other financial impositions the court will take into account the information you have given about your financial circumstances including your assets.

I have seen (such as here https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/index ... quiry-form) that not completing anything much may result in a higher fine, as it assumes your relevant weekly income is £440 (if that is up to date), which it may be anyway.

No doubt others with greater knowledge can comment further but there'll be loads on all this at https://www.pistonheads.com and http://forums.pepipoo.com/.

Edit: This might assist https://speedingfinesuk.co.uk/speeding_ ... elines.htm which includes a Penalty calculator.

terminal7
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Re: Statement of Means

#239893

Postby terminal7 » July 28th, 2019, 10:39 am

Thanks PD for your insights and links - yes indeed MC 100!

T7

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Re: Statement of Means

#239895

Postby PinkDalek » July 28th, 2019, 10:45 am

terminal7 wrote:Thanks PD for your insights and links - yes indeed MC 100!


No insights really but did you see my late Edit with the Penalty calculator (I've no idea if that is accurate but it presumably gives some guidance)?

terminal7
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Re: Statement of Means

#239909

Postby terminal7 » July 28th, 2019, 12:31 pm

The outputs of the 'calculator':

Speeding (38 mph in 20 limit)
Fine: £100–£1,000
Band B

Points:
4–6 *

Ban:
7-28 days
* If an instant ban is imposed, you will not receive points.

As a OAP, the financial situation is not straightforward - I receive my state pension and have variable drawdown from SIPP. Effectively I have not taken any drawdown in last 2 years as occasionally extract savings from deposit account instead. As I rent the net cash flow is effectively negative in terms of earnings and expenditure. All this makes the completion of MC 100 a little problematic though there is a box for comments.

terminal7
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Re: Statement of Means

#240212

Postby terminal7 » July 29th, 2019, 3:52 pm

Interestingly. I just completed the forms on line and they are nowhere near as lengthy as the forms received in the post. The MC 100 data requests has been reduced on line to a couple of questions regarding monthly (or weekly) income etc. Trying to think why this difference.

T7

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Re: Statement of Means

#240287

Postby PinkDalek » July 29th, 2019, 7:25 pm

terminal7 wrote:Interestingly. I just completed the forms on line and they are nowhere near as lengthy as the forms received in the post. The MC 100 data requests has been reduced on line to a couple of questions regarding monthly (or weekly) income etc. Trying to think why this difference.


I was hoping someone with more knowledge*** would join the thread but, out of interest, does the online form ask for partner's income?


*** I'll cross post at Cars, Driving etc in case there's anyone there who doesn't follow Legal Issues.

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Re: Statement of Means

#240314

Postby terminal7 » July 29th, 2019, 8:58 pm

PD - No

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Re: Statement of Means

#250084

Postby terminal7 » September 7th, 2019, 10:53 am

Today received by email (I have checked to make sure it is genuine) the Notice of Fine and Penalties.

Costs £85
Surcharge to fund victim services £30
Fine £230

Thus total of £345 plus 4 points.

Hefty lesson.

T7

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Re: Statement of Means

#250089

Postby Dod101 » September 7th, 2019, 11:06 am

terminal7 wrote:Today received by email (I have checked to make sure it is genuine) the Notice of Fine and Penalties.

Costs £85
Surcharge to fund victim services £30
Fine £230

Thus total of £345 plus 4 points.

Hefty lesson.


That is expensive in every sense. Can I ask what speed you were travelling at in the 20 mph area? I got a £100 fine plus three penalty points for doing probably 70 mph in a single carriageway country road where the limit was 60 mph. I would have thought my 'crime' was more dangerous.

Dod

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Re: Statement of Means

#250090

Postby PinkDalek » September 7th, 2019, 11:10 am

See the “calculator” results earlier:

viewtopic.php?p=239909#p239909

38mph in a 20mph zone. The results mentioned the possibility of a ban ...

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Re: Statement of Means

#250093

Postby terminal7 » September 7th, 2019, 11:18 am

38 in a 20 zone v 70 in a 60 - clearly I am the 'winner'

T7

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Re: Statement of Means

#250098

Postby Dod101 » September 7th, 2019, 11:45 am

terminal7 wrote:38 in a 20 zone v 70 in a 60 - clearly I am the 'winner'

T7


Sorry. Just noticed you disclosed your speed in July! Yes I guess that 37 in a 20 zone meant you must have stood out like a sore thumb. My only experience is in Edinburgh where they have 20 mph restrictions and most drive at up to about 25 mph. For many urban areas 20 mph seems to me to be much too slow and meaningless. Like finding 50 mph signs on a motorway for no discernible reason.

Dod

terminal7
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Re: Statement of Means

#250110

Postby terminal7 » September 7th, 2019, 12:43 pm

This was at 11.30 pm driving home on an empty road from baby sitting duties - could have paid a baby sitter some £70 per hour!

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Re: Statement of Means

#250198

Postby Clitheroekid » September 7th, 2019, 7:34 pm

PinkDalek wrote:This might assist https://speedingfinesuk.co.uk/speeding_ ... elines.htm which includes a Penalty calculator.

I just tried this to see what maximum speed it would accept. I entered 300 mph in a 30 mph zone, and, not surprisingly, it said I would probably be looking at a ban.

But when I increased the speed to 301 mph it said "The speed alleged is in excess of the fastest production car available in the UK. You may wish to challenge the speed alleged by pleading not guilty!"

An interesting argument, though one that I would hesitate about putting forward in a magistrates' court!

And in case you're wondering, the top recorded speed of a production car was a Koenigsegg, recorded in 2017 at just over 277 mph (though presumably not in a 30 mph zone ;) )

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Re: Statement of Means

#250264

Postby robbelg » September 8th, 2019, 9:38 am

Not any more Bugtti has just done 304mph

https://www.motor1.com/news/369478/buga ... sport-300/

Rob

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Re: Statement of Means

#250301

Postby terminal7 » September 8th, 2019, 12:02 pm

Guys guys guys - I am an OAP and was driving a mini at 38 mph. I know - I should be at home in my slippers with a cup of cocoa.

T7

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Re: Statement of Means

#254360

Postby 88V8 » September 27th, 2019, 3:02 pm

20mph zones increase pollution which definitely kills people, as distinct from 'speeding' which rarely harms anyone. But 'speeding' is and always has been a useful revenue raiser.

V8

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Re: Statement of Means

#254374

Postby richlist » September 27th, 2019, 4:13 pm

It's all about survival rates. We have lots of 20mph limits around schools in my part of Essex. Get hit by a car at 20mph and you have a good chance of surviving........get hit by a car doing 37mph and you are almost definitely DEAD.

Just cos 20mph seems slow in your car isn't what it's about.......it's not about you ........it's about pedestrians.

I would imagine the OP would rather a £345 fine than having caused the death of one of your family members !

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Re: Statement of Means

#254389

Postby Lootman » September 27th, 2019, 4:53 pm

richlist wrote:It's all about survival rates. We have lots of 20mph limits around schools in my part of Essex. Get hit by a car at 20mph and you have a good chance of surviving........get hit by a car doing 37mph and you are almost definitely DEAD.

The figures I saw were that at 20 miles per hour, roughly 5 percent of struck people die. At 30 miles per hour, that number jumps to roughly 20 percent. By 42 miles per hour the number rises to 50 percent.


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