How long does probate take?

[hiriskpaul]

Does anyone know how long it is likely to take to get probate at present? I have applied to the London Registry and the HMRC sent them a IHT421 over 2 weeks ago. The probate office is impossible to get through to on the phone, 99% of the time engaged and when you do get a line, nobody answers.

[Clitheroekid]

There's a very substantial backlog at the Probate Registries throughout England.

There are various reasons, including the dreaded `digitisation' which seems to be a guaranteed recipe for disaster where any public authority is concerned, but there have also been problems because more experienced staff have gone and been replaced by new and untrained staff.

A major contributor to delay was the announcement earlier this year that much higher probate fees were to be introduced on 1 April. This led to a massive increase in applications to beat the deadline, and we're still suffering the fallout. I would expect that the London registry would have been affected more severely than the rest of the country due to the higher value of property there and the much higher fees that were in prospect.

By way of illustration I recently dealt with a case where the application was sent on 20 May, and the grant was issued on 31 July. This seems fairly typical.

Here's a recent note from the Law Socity - https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/news/stor ... ce-delays/

[hiriskpaul]

Thanks. Sounds more like 12 weeks then rather than the "Up to 8 weeks" on the government web site.

[yorkshirelad1]

Does anyone know how long it is likely to take to get probate at present? I have applied to the London Registry and the HMRC sent them a IHT421 over 2 weeks ago. The probate office is impossible to get through to on the phone, 99% of the time engaged and when you do get a line, nobody answers.

Afraid it might take longer than usual as others have pointed out. Article in Torygraph from August: (sorry, it's paywalled, I read the paper edition) suggesting that there are some delays in the probate office at the mo.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/inheritance/one-five-face-higher-inheritance-tax-bills-probate-delays-drag/

[hiriskpaul]

Does anyone know how long it is likely to take to get probate at present? I have applied to the London Registry and the HMRC sent them a IHT421 over 2 weeks ago. The probate office is impossible to get through to on the phone, 99% of the time engaged and when you do get a line, nobody answers.

Afraid it might take longer than usual as others have pointed out. Article in Torygraph from August: (sorry, it's paywalled, I read the paper edition) suggesting that there are some delays in the probate office at the mo.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/inheritance/one-five-face-higher-inheritance-tax-bills-probate-delays-drag/

We are in precisely this state with respect to paying 3% interest on IHT. There is a house to sell, so paying IHT by installments is permitted, but there are also easily liquidated assets that could be used to pay the whole IHT charge were it not for the fact that we cannot get at the other assets without probate. If I was a beneficiary I would pay the IHT out of my own pocket, but none of the beneficiaries are able or prepared to do that.

[Clitheroekid]

We are in precisely this state with respect to paying 3% interest on IHT. There is a house to sell, so paying IHT by installments is permitted, but there are also easily liquidated assets that could be used to pay the whole IHT charge were it not for the fact that we cannot get at the other assets without probate. If I was a beneficiary I would pay the IHT out of my own pocket, but none of the beneficiaries are able or prepared to do that.

One of the advantages in using a solicitor to obtain probate is that they know the tricks of the trade!

Banks, building societies and NS&I will all release funds for payment of Inheritance Tax before probate is granted. It's known as the Direct Payment Scheme - details here - https://www.gov.uk/paying-inheritance-t ... nk-account

But you can also arrange it informally. If you ask the relevant bank to make payments to HMRC for the payment of IHT they will normally do so quite readily, without having to go through the DPS.

[hiriskpaul]

We are in precisely this state with respect to paying 3% interest on IHT. There is a house to sell, so paying IHT by installments is permitted, but there are also easily liquidated assets that could be used to pay the whole IHT charge were it not for the fact that we cannot get at the other assets without probate. If I was a beneficiary I would pay the IHT out of my own pocket, but none of the beneficiaries are able or prepared to do that.

One of the advantages in using a solicitor to obtain probate is that they know the tricks of the trade!

Banks, building societies and NS&I will all release funds for payment of Inheritance Tax before probate is granted. It's known as the Direct Payment Scheme - details here - https://www.gov.uk/paying-inheritance-t ... nk-account

But you can also arrange it informally. If you ask the relevant bank to make payments to HMRC for the payment of IHT they will normally do so quite readily, without having to go through the DPS.

That trick was also available to me. Unfortunately though there was insufficient money in accounts to cover all the IHT and I have closed them anyway as they were below the various banks' thresholds. There is an insurance company investment plan/bond thing which requires probate before they will release. That will easily cover the IHT. There are also premium bonds, but the other trustee and family were unwilling to release those while they are still eligible for prizes. Oh and some shares, but the certificates have been lost!

With the amount of work I have had to put in (and the amount still to come), I now fully appreciate why solicitors charge the amount they do to administer some estates.

We only started accruing interest from 1 September and I was hoping to get probate through in the next week or so. If it is going to take longer we may need to revisit the decision on those premium bonds.

[Clitheroekid]

There are also premium bonds, but the other trustee and family were unwilling to release those while they are still eligible for prizes.

You might point out to your fellow executor that the interest rate paid in premium bond prizes is less than half the rate charged by HMRC on overdue inheritance tax.

An executor has a positive obligation to act in the best interests of the estate, and a decision to take the chance of winning prizes that would exceed the interest payable - in effect gambling with estate assets - would be highly dubious.

[terminal7]

I did my mother's estate last autumn as the executor. Very straightforward and just under IHT level - the London Probate office turned it around in 6 weeks. Clearly as the Kid has noted - now taking significantly longer.

T7

[hiriskpaul]

There are also premium bonds, but the other trustee and family were unwilling to release those while they are still eligible for prizes.

You might point out to your fellow executor that the interest rate paid in premium bond prizes is less than half the rate charged by HMRC on overdue inheritance tax.

An executor has a positive obligation to act in the best interests of the estate, and a decision to take the chance of winning prizes that would exceed the interest payable - in effect gambling with estate assets - would be highly dubious.

Thanks I know about the responsibility. Unfortunately the other executor, who is a 60% beneficiary, is completely out of his depth. He is opposing the disposal of premium bonds. I did not think it would matter for a couple of weeks interest, but I am not happy for this to drag on for a prolonged period. I will tackle him again about this. The crazy thing is as well that he can easily afford to pay the IHT and he will lose more on the interest than he is making on his savings.

[hiriskpaul]

Probate papers through today. 17 weeks after applying and 12 weeks after HMRC completed their assessment and sent the IHT 421 to the probate registry. An outrageous amount of time IMHO.

Following exchanges on here I did manage to persuade my cousin to pay the IHT, which turns out to be just as well!