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Roofer not completed job

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JessUK98
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Roofer not completed job

#388625

Postby JessUK98 » February 22nd, 2021, 9:24 am

Hi, can anyone give me some advice on what I can do about a roofer. Employed end of October to replace roof. Has done half of it and hasn’t been back since. Not seen since before Christmas. Whenever we phone fobs us off with various different excuses and says things like “the next day the weather is nice I’ll be right over”, and obviously never turns up. I’ve just tried to call him now and I think he has rejected the call (rather than go straight to answer phone it rung once and went to answer phone).

Anyway, materials have been paid for and are all on “site” here. I’ve stupidly paid him nearly 80% of the quoted price for the job.

What recourse against him do I have if he keeps fobbing me off? Can I get someone else to finish and claim the extra it will cost me back from him through the small claims? Is this something perhaps my house insurer would sort out?

I’ve not gone guns blazing with him yet as I don’t want to give him an excuse to claim I’ve been unreasonable and use that as an excuse of wriggling out of any responsibility.

TIA,

Jess

88V8
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Re: Roofer not completed job

#388644

Postby 88V8 » February 22nd, 2021, 10:05 am

Oh dear.
Write recorded delivery giving him fourteen days to complete the job.
Don't relent on the date, even if he reappears.

If that doesn't work, send a 'letter before action' https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-a ... all-claim/
And then if necessary yes, the Small Claims Court. Your house insurance does not cover defaulting tradesmen.

Meanwhile you will need someone to finish the job, yes you will probably end up paying more. It's annoying.

The materials are on site.... make sure they cannot be removed, you own those materials....so perhaps you could finish it yourself.... it's not rocket science.... just a thought.

V8

Mike4
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Re: Roofer not completed job

#388657

Postby Mike4 » February 22nd, 2021, 11:00 am

A couple of thoughts.

3) Having been in the building trade a long time I'd say there is a proportion of truly feckless and amoral people in the world of building, it attracts them as there are few if any business standards to meet and comply with, and anyone can call themselves a roofer and set up in business with no checks or qualifications necessary.

There are also quite a few who are poorly skilled at life in general and who cannot really handle their personal financial affairs at all, living literally hand-to-mouth in the world of building. If you have one of these on your hands, your 80% payment in advance may well have been spent almost on the day you paid it with no thought to how (or whether) they would complete the job. So now from their own personal selfish perspective, they are under pressure to complete a whole roof for only the remaining 20% of the price, and other people are approaching them offering them jobs which they can do in perhaps a few days and get 100% money. You are now competing with these other customers for this roofer's time, and losing the competition I suspect. Now I know this is difficult to understand for the typical nice, well organised and well off TLF-type of people here, but I've seen this is how a proportion of builders run their lives and it might help illuminate to you what I think has possibly happened. Perhaps this is of no help at all, but the roofer may well have every intention of finishing your job but only after he has finished the one he is currently doing as he just needs the money. And then the next one, and the next.....

1) I would not want a tradesman working on my house who does not want to be there. Having to force someone to complete a job, especially a roof, to a good standard is a recipe for an ongoing disaster which could easily keep the two of you involved legally with each other for years. So I would look to plan to engage another roofer now and recover whatever you can from the first one, rather than pressure him back onto site to bodge it for the final 20% as quickly and cheaply as he can.

2) What sort of roofing work are we talking about? A relatively trivial flat roof on say the garage? Or a five bed detached with the whole roof partially rebuilt under a temporary scaffolding cover? Or something in between?

4) Is this a solo self employed roofer or a Ltd company?

These thoughts are just my reading of the situation, I could be miles wrong and I hope I am, but if I'm right then seeing the whole picture might help you decide on your strategy.


Edit to add: And some of them can't even count, as you may have noticed from my point numbering.

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Re: Roofer not completed job

#388729

Postby Avantegarde » February 22nd, 2021, 1:49 pm

88V8 wrote:Oh dear.
Write recorded delivery giving him fourteen days to complete the job.
Don't relent on the date, even if he reappears.

If that doesn't work, send a 'letter before action' https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-a ... all-claim/
And then if necessary yes, the Small Claims Court. Your house insurance does not cover defaulting tradesmen.

Meanwhile you will need someone to finish the job, yes you will probably end up paying more. It's annoying.

The materials are on site.... make sure they cannot be removed, you own those materials....so perhaps you could finish it yourself.... it's not rocket science.... just a thought.

V8


I agree with this suggested approach. Also, once this is all done and dusted, you can leave bad (but honest) reviews about him on any websites where he may promote his work, such as Rated Trader or Trusted Trader. You might even make a call to your council's Trading Standards department for advice, if one still exists.

JessUK98
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Re: Roofer not completed job

#389740

Postby JessUK98 » February 24th, 2021, 8:40 pm

Mike4 wrote:A couple of thoughts.

3) Having been in the building trade a long time I'd say there is a proportion of truly feckless and amoral people in the world of building, it attracts them as there are few if any business standards to meet and comply with, and anyone can call themselves a roofer and set up in business with no checks or qualifications necessary.

There are also quite a few who are poorly skilled at life in general and who cannot really handle their personal financial affairs at all, living literally hand-to-mouth in the world of building. If you have one of these on your hands, your 80% payment in advance may well have been spent almost on the day you paid it with no thought to how (or whether) they would complete the job. So now from their own personal selfish perspective, they are under pressure to complete a whole roof for only the remaining 20% of the price, and other people are approaching them offering them jobs which they can do in perhaps a few days and get 100% money. You are now competing with these other customers for this roofer's time, and losing the competition I suspect. Now I know this is difficult to understand for the typical nice, well organised and well off TLF-type of people here, but I've seen this is how a proportion of builders run their lives and it might help illuminate to you what I think has possibly happened. Perhaps this is of no help at all, but the roofer may well have every intention of finishing your job but only after he has finished the one he is currently doing as he just needs the money. And then the next one, and the next.....

1) I would not want a tradesman working on my house who does not want to be there. Having to force someone to complete a job, especially a roof, to a good standard is a recipe for an ongoing disaster which could easily keep the two of you involved legally with each other for years. So I would look to plan to engage another roofer now and recover whatever you can from the first one, rather than pressure him back onto site to bodge it for the final 20% as quickly and cheaply as he can.

2) What sort of roofing work are we talking about? A relatively trivial flat roof on say the garage? Or a five bed detached with the whole roof partially rebuilt under a temporary scaffolding cover? Or something in between?

4) Is this a solo self employed roofer or a Ltd company?

These thoughts are just my reading of the situation, I could be miles wrong and I hope I am, but if I'm right then seeing the whole picture might help you decide on your strategy.


Edit to add: And some of them can't even count, as you may have noticed from my point numbering.


I think Mike has nailed it on the head with point 3, and I'm pretty sure that all the money he has had has now been spent. A mutual acquaintance has informed me that he has been experiencing personal difficulties recently after a split with his significant other and has been staying in a hostel and asking friends and family to borrow money to tide him over. Not sure how much of that is true, but it doesn't bode well for me really. Apparently he is coming on Friday now. I'll have a chat with my other half and we might just cut our losses and get someone else in to finish the job, as I'm pretty sure we'll not be seeing him on Friday. We could do small claims/trading standard route I guess, not that if the above is true, he'd be able to pay anything back.

It's an L shaped terrace. He has done the front of the house, then the next doors roof joins mine in the middle at the back, so he has done one small corner of that. The remainder has the old tiles on but because there are no ridge tiles, some of the old slates have slipped at the top.
--^----- (^ being the neighbours roof coming into mine, he has kind of done the -- bit, but still needs to put ridge tiles along the end to stop the wind ripping up the slates, he has already been out to fix a leak in that section just before Christmas when it was just batten and felt, so he tiled it at that point. I'm surprised that I've not noticed anymore leaks at the back to be honest.
He's a solo self employed roofer.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Roofer not completed job

#389754

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » February 24th, 2021, 9:30 pm

JessUK98 wrote:Hi, can anyone give me some advice on what I can do about a roofer. Employed end of October to replace roof. Has done half of it and hasn’t been back since. Not seen since before Christmas. Whenever we phone fobs us off with various different excuses and says things like “the next day the weather is nice I’ll be right over”, and obviously never turns up. I’ve just tried to call him now and I think he has rejected the call (rather than go straight to answer phone it rung once and went to answer phone).

Anyway, materials have been paid for and are all on “site” here. I’ve stupidly paid him nearly 80% of the quoted price for the job.

What recourse against him do I have if he keeps fobbing me off? Can I get someone else to finish and claim the extra it will cost me back from him through the small claims? Is this something perhaps my house insurer would sort out?

I’ve not gone guns blazing with him yet as I don’t want to give him an excuse to claim I’ve been unreasonable and use that as an excuse of wriggling out of any responsibility.

TIA,

Jess

Hi Jess,

I'm afraid Mike has really captured the position very accurately. I'd like if I may to augment what he's already said if I may please. At the same time as you count the financial cost I think there's something more important. That's your emotional well being. I'd strongly suggest you think before taking any "legal" action against this person. Yes he deserves to be brought to justice, but the cost to your well being will be quite high. And you'll spend more time and more money chasing down nothing.

My career has been around making sure that these kind of events don't occur. And the sums of money are often significant. I've learned there's a time when "walking away" is the most viable option.

I'm sorry but I think you need to consider this as Plan A. It's not defeatist and it's not about getting him back. It's simple self preservation.

And finally - don't beat yourself up. We all trust people. Sometimes that trust is misplaced. You're a good person. A kind person.

Shop around and get two or three quotes and move forward.

Good luck

AiY

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Re: Roofer not completed job

#390507

Postby redsturgeon » February 27th, 2021, 10:14 am

Though I agree 99% with Mike4 and AiY who both are far more experienced than me in these matters, I think I would give him one final chance to finish things.

My reasoning is that he seems to be going through a significant personal disruption in his life, that can happen to any of us at any time and he may just be a very proficient roofer who given a few day will be able to finish you job to everyone's satisfaction.

Now for a controversial bit, given what has been said about the extra cost to you if you stop working with him now and get someone else to finish the job. If it is only a few day work left I'd be tempted to empathise with him and offer him a bit of money extra if he gets it done in double quick time. We are looking at a week of good weather ahead of us now...how long would it realistically take for him to finish the job? And let's face it, with the 20%+ that he is still owed for the completed job, surely that is sufficient motivation.

As has been said, taking him to small claims may not result in a great outcome for you anyhow if he is broke with no assets.

At the end of the day he may be a charlatan or he may just have been a decent bloke down on his luck in these difficult times.

As for the DIY suggestion, I'd caution against that, roofing has a significant element of danger attached to it.

John

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Re: Roofer not completed job

#391175

Postby pompeygazza » March 1st, 2021, 2:28 pm

Quite often the local paper will have some sort of "scam" investigator/problem solver who may take up your case and give him a ring. (or you may be able to get a friend to ring him pretending to be the paper and ask him for his comments on your unfinished job).

JessUK98
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Re: Roofer not completed job

#392177

Postby JessUK98 » March 4th, 2021, 11:00 am

Well, he didn't come on Friday as expected, but he did come on Monday. Explained that he's had a bit of a breakdown, and his head has been a "bit mashed" and is slowly getting back into things and would it be OK if he takes all week to finish it as he'd rather do things slowly and correctly rather than rushed. Fair enough, I think. He spent about an hour on Monday just tidying up all the crap left on the scaffolding, and stacking slates and then went. The last couple of days he has actually slated all the remainder of the roof, and this morning says he's putting the ridge tiles on and will finish the other bits tomorrow as well as clearing up. So we shall see how he gets on today, he usually works from about 10 - 2ish give or take half an hour, with several coffee and fag breaks. At least he is making progress!

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Re: Roofer not completed job

#392199

Postby chas49 » March 4th, 2021, 11:47 am

It sounds as if you may be making progress now so much of the previous discussion is academic hopefully.

Nevertheless just picking up on one point from earlier:

88V8 wrote:Your house insurance does not cover defaulting tradesmen.


It's not uncommon for home insurance to have a legal expenses add-on which may cover such claims - and may also be a source of free legal advice. worth just checking what cover you have (all the usual caveats about the limitations of such cover and the law firms that operate them still apply)

JessUK98
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Re: Roofer not completed job

#394417

Postby JessUK98 » March 10th, 2021, 8:57 pm

Not sure whether to post this here, or start a new thread on the DIY board. Anyway, he still has some bits to finish.Some cementing and tidying up, but the weather has taken a turn (He didn't turn up on Friday or Monday).
Anyway, I went up in the attic and I can see some light coming through in two places which would be where the lead valleys are. I'm thinking I shouldn't be able to see any light? Do I need to get him to sort this out again? Or is this normal?
It has been raining and quite windy but I can't see any rain coming through anywhere.

Here are some photos with flash off, and one with flash on.
Image
Image
Image


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