Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Divorce costs

including wills and probate
Clitheroekid
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2856
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 9:58 pm
Has thanked: 1384 times
Been thanked: 3771 times

Divorce costs

#395033

Postby Clitheroekid » March 12th, 2021, 6:19 pm

I came across yet another example of the crazy legal costs incurred by people in divorce proceedings today. The husband was a Swedish guy, popularly known as Kenny Brack, who had been a racing driver. He retired from racing in 2003 after a spectacular crash in which he supposedly experienced the highest g-force ever experienced by a human being that survived.

The arguments were largely about whether pre-nuptial agreements were binding or not, and the main part of the report is probably only of interest to family lawyers - https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2020/2142.html

But this section caught my eye, and should act as a warning to anyone contemplating fighting their spouse through the divorce courts:

Costs

Following receipt of the Judgment of the Court of Appeal, one might have hoped that the parties would have settled the case; it is not especially difficult. The parties' children were aged 8 and 12 when the case was before me in 2016. They are now respectively 12 and 16 and it is regrettable that their young lives will have been overshadowed by their parents' litigation.

The husband has now spent £1,003,959 on this litigation and expects to spend a further £301,000 by the time the case has finished (I should say that, by tragically sad circumstances, his original leading counsel is no longer available). The wife has spent £634,098 and expects to spend a further £185,000. This means that the parties' costs will total some £2,124,057.

In paragraph 19 of my 2016 Judgment, I found that the assets in the case were £10,859,533. Although I have not received any up to date evidence about this, I imagine that the value of the assets which I identified at that time will have decreased, given the events which have overwhelmed the world since 2016.

This means that the parties have now spent at least 20% of their net worth litigating against each other. It would, I respectfully suggest, have been wiser to spend that money on each other and not on their excellent, but expensive, legal teams. It is, of course, a matter for them, but it would be hard to explain to that elusive "reasonable person" how they are where they are.


I'm afraid the best financial advice to any even moderately wealthy person remains that if your intended is a lot poorer than you are then don't do it, and settle for living in sin! ;)

terminal7
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1917
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:26 pm
Has thanked: 225 times
Been thanked: 686 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395037

Postby terminal7 » March 12th, 2021, 6:30 pm

The husband was a Swedish guy, popularly known as Kenny Brack, who had been a racing driver


For one moment I thought I had read Swiss Tony.

T7

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18676
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6559 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395044

Postby Lootman » March 12th, 2021, 6:49 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:I'm afraid the best financial advice to any even moderately wealthy person remains that if your intended is a lot poorer than you are then don't do it, and settle for living in sin! ;)

That advice would have been well taken by John Cleese, whose 3rd divorce cost him 60% of his net worth.

When he met her, she was poor and living in a council flat. But at her divorce case she argued that she had become accustomed to dining in castles, and the like, and so was entitled to that lifestyle forever. Evidently the court accepted her argument. I believe that she got about $23,000,000. I would have awarded her £23.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/ce ... -eo2c.html

scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4811
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 2675 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395055

Postby scrumpyjack » March 12th, 2021, 7:25 pm

Well foreigners spending their money on English lawyers is part of our 'invisible earnings' so well done to the lawyers as we don't export many physical products these days? :D

scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4811
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 2675 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395056

Postby scrumpyjack » March 12th, 2021, 7:26 pm

ps '3rd divorce' demonstrates what they call a triumph of hope over experience :D

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18676
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6559 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395067

Postby Lootman » March 12th, 2021, 8:12 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:Well foreigners spending their money on English lawyers is part of our 'invisible earnings' so well done to the lawyers as we don't export many physical products these days? :D

I read somewhere that the UK is the global location of choice for anyone hoping to get the highest possible divorce judgement. So anyone who has any kind of British connection that entitles them to file for divorce in the UK will do so. We've even got the Americans beat at that. Finally something we are world leaders in. I'm so proud.

The easiest, quickest, cheapest place for a divorce is supposedly the Dominican Republic. Apparently the self-styled “divorce capital of the world” is no longer Reno, Nevada:

https://time.com/5783893/reno-divorce-history/

AsleepInYorkshire
Lemon Half
Posts: 7383
Joined: February 7th, 2017, 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 10514 times
Been thanked: 4659 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395077

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » March 12th, 2021, 9:48 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:I came across yet another example of the crazy legal costs incurred by people in divorce proceedings today. The husband was a Swedish guy, popularly known as Kenny Brack, who had been a racing driver. He retired from racing in 2003 after a spectacular crash in which he supposedly experienced the highest g-force ever experienced by a human being that survived.

The arguments were largely about whether pre-nuptial agreements were binding or not, and the main part of the report is probably only of interest to family lawyers - https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2020/2142.html

But this section caught my eye, and should act as a warning to anyone contemplating fighting their spouse through the divorce courts:

Costs

Following receipt of the Judgment of the Court of Appeal, one might have hoped that the parties would have settled the case; it is not especially difficult. The parties' children were aged 8 and 12 when the case was before me in 2016. They are now respectively 12 and 16 and it is regrettable that their young lives will have been overshadowed by their parents' litigation.

The husband has now spent £1,003,959 on this litigation and expects to spend a further £301,000 by the time the case has finished (I should say that, by tragically sad circumstances, his original leading counsel is no longer available). The wife has spent £634,098 and expects to spend a further £185,000. This means that the parties' costs will total some £2,124,057.

In paragraph 19 of my 2016 Judgment, I found that the assets in the case were £10,859,533. Although I have not received any up to date evidence about this, I imagine that the value of the assets which I identified at that time will have decreased, given the events which have overwhelmed the world since 2016.

This means that the parties have now spent at least 20% of their net worth litigating against each other. It would, I respectfully suggest, have been wiser to spend that money on each other and not on their excellent, but expensive, legal teams. It is, of course, a matter for them, but it would be hard to explain to that elusive "reasonable person" how they are where they are.


I'm afraid the best financial advice to any even moderately wealthy person remains that if your intended is a lot poorer than you are then don't do it, and settle for living in sin! ;)

Nope ... I don't get it at all. Get married loose the lot. Get divorced walk away with half. Sorry been swigging some falling down water :shock:

AiY

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7084
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1637 times
Been thanked: 3791 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395122

Postby Mike4 » March 13th, 2021, 8:52 am

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:Nope ... I don't get it at all. Get married loose the lot. Get divorced walk away with half. Sorry been swigging some falling down water :shock:

AiY


Who was that American comedian who acerbically declared (something along the lines of) "I'm not getting married again. This time, I'm going to short-cut the process... I'm going to just find a woman I don't like and give her my house..." ?

He'd probably been on the falling down water too!

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10689
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395123

Postby UncleEbenezer » March 13th, 2021, 8:57 am

It's not remotely comparable to Jarndyce.

You misspelled "Litigation Costs" in the title of this thread. Someone remind me of Dickens's words about enduring any injustice rather than feeding that beast!

Bminusrob
Lemon Slice
Posts: 386
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:45 pm
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 270 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395129

Postby Bminusrob » March 13th, 2021, 9:30 am

From the Uxridge English dictionary:

Bachelor (n) A man who hasn't made the same mistake once

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8064
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3938 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395175

Postby bungeejumper » March 13th, 2021, 11:46 am

Mike4 wrote:Who was that American comedian who acerbically declared (something along the lines of) "I'm not getting married again. This time, I'm going to short-cut the process... I'm going to just find a woman I don't like and give her my house..." ?

Guess again, it was Rod Stewart. https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/rod_stewart_188864 . Another fan of the falling down water!

BJ

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8064
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3938 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395180

Postby bungeejumper » March 13th, 2021, 11:55 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:Someone remind me of Dickens's words about enduring any injustice rather than feeding that beast!

Brings to mind an old German cartoon I once saw. The judge is mopping his mouth as he delivers his verdict. "It was an excellent oyster. The court awards each party half of the shell."

BJ

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7084
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1637 times
Been thanked: 3791 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395186

Postby Mike4 » March 13th, 2021, 12:07 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
Mike4 wrote:Who was that American comedian who acerbically declared (something along the lines of) "I'm not getting married again. This time, I'm going to short-cut the process... I'm going to just find a woman I don't like and give her my house..." ?

Guess again, it was Rod Stewart. https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/rod_stewart_188864 . Another fan of the falling down water!

BJ


No I wasn't guessing, I got it from an American comedian I saw about 30 years ago on the telly. Thing is, did that nice Mr Stewart see the same telly programme I wonder, or did the American comedian hear Mr Stewart saying it?

I met Rod Stewart once. I was buying a sandwich for lunch in the deli in Sunningdale at the height of his fame, and who should I realise standing directly behind me in the queue was Rodney. Being in a nice well mannered area no-one in the shop bothered him except me, who after leaving the shop found my van blocked in by a fkcn great gold coloured Rolls Royce. Putting two and two together i returned to the sarnie shop and asked in a loud voice "does anyone in here own the gold Rolls Royce out here blocking me in?" .... guess who said "oh sorry mate, that's me. I'll come and move it immediately"..? Which he did. No hint of prima donna-ness, just came out and let me and my van out with much apology. I very much warmed to him from then on.

DrFfybes
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3731
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 1171 times
Been thanked: 1964 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395398

Postby DrFfybes » March 14th, 2021, 10:55 am

Lootman wrote:That advice would have been well taken by John Cleese, whose 3rd divorce cost him 60% of his net worth.

When he met her, she was poor and living in a council flat. But at her divorce case she argued that she had become accustomed to dining in castles, and the like, and so was entitled to that lifestyle forever. Evidently the court accepted her argument. I believe that she got about $23,000,000. I would have awarded her £23.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/ce ... -eo2c.html


I never realised JC was worth so much - thos corporate videos must pay well :)

Heather Mills got £24.3m from Paul McCartney when they parted after 39 months, though apparently spent it even quicker. One wag commented it worked out about £21k per night, adding "I'm obviously in the wrong job".

Paul

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7084
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1637 times
Been thanked: 3791 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395409

Postby Mike4 » March 14th, 2021, 11:39 am

DrFfybes wrote:
Lootman wrote:That advice would have been well taken by John Cleese, whose 3rd divorce cost him 60% of his net worth.

When he met her, she was poor and living in a council flat. But at her divorce case she argued that she had become accustomed to dining in castles, and the like, and so was entitled to that lifestyle forever. Evidently the court accepted her argument. I believe that she got about $23,000,000. I would have awarded her £23.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/ce ... -eo2c.html


I never realised JC was worth so much - thos corporate videos must pay well :)

Heather Mills got £24.3m from Paul McCartney when they parted after 39 months, though apparently spent it even quicker. One wag commented it worked out about £21k per night, adding "I'm obviously in the wrong job".

Paul


The thing they never tell you that I always find myself wondering, and which would put these awards into perspective, is how much the victim was worth at the point of the award being made. If JC and PMcC were each worth £25m those awards would seem harsh. But if they were still billionaires after paying out, then not so harsh at all.

Mind you, getting shot of Ms Mills was probably worth every penny, from what I'd read about her at the time.

scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4811
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 2675 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395412

Postby scrumpyjack » March 14th, 2021, 11:47 am

Lootman wrote:That advice would have been well taken by John Cleese, whose 3rd divorce cost him 60% of his net worth.

When he met her, she was poor and living in a council flat. But at her divorce case she argued that she had become accustomed to dining in castles, and the like, and so was entitled to that lifestyle forever. Evidently the court accepted her argument. I believe that she got about $23,000,000. I would have awarded her £23.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/ce ... -eo2c.html


Yes the law really is an ass (sorry CK). You only have to read the obituary of Sir Jeremiah Harman in yesterday's paper (DT and Times). How that man ever became a High Court judge! A solicitor friend of mine, whose judgement I totally trust, told me he once had case before Mr Justice Harman and can confirm he was 'horrendous'.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7084
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1637 times
Been thanked: 3791 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395416

Postby Mike4 » March 14th, 2021, 11:57 am

Lootman wrote:That advice would have been well taken by John Cleese, whose 3rd divorce cost him 60% of his net worth.

When he met her, she was poor and living in a council flat. But at her divorce case she argued that she had become accustomed to dining in castles, and the like, and so was entitled to that lifestyle forever. Evidently the court accepted her argument. I believe that she got about $23,000,000. I would have awarded her £23.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/ce ... -eo2c.html



Only just read your link. Nice to see from the article Mr Cleese still using his wonderful acerbic wit!

"He said of the outcome: "I got off lightly. Think what I'd have had to pay Alyce if she had contributed anything to the relationship." "

SteMiS
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2311
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:41 pm
Has thanked: 207 times
Been thanked: 592 times

Re: Divorce costs

#395417

Postby SteMiS » March 14th, 2021, 11:58 am

DrFfybes wrote:Heather Mills got £24.3m from Paul McCartney when they parted after 39 months, though apparently spent it even quicker. One wag commented it worked out about £21k per night, adding "I'm obviously in the wrong job".

She actually sought £125 million !! McCartney offered her £15 million. The fact that she got 'little' more than McCartney's offer probably, at least partly, comes from the judge's comment that

15. The husband’s evidence was, in my judgment, balanced. He expressed himself moderately though at times with justifiable irritation, if not anger. He was consistent, accurate and honest.

16. But I regret to have to say I cannot say the same about the wife’s evidence. Having watched and listened to her give evidence, having studied the documents, and having given in her favour every allowance for the enormous strain she must have been under (and in conducting her own case) I am driven to the conclusion that much of her evidence, both written and oral, was not just inconsistent and inaccurate but also less than candid. Overall she was a less than impressive witness.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/p ... _mills.pdf


Return to “Legal Issues (Practical)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests