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Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

including wills and probate
Gilesyb27
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Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#397904

Postby Gilesyb27 » March 22nd, 2021, 11:27 am

Greetings legally-minded Fools! I would appreciate any informed opinions on the following.....

I am considering purchasing a family home that comes together with a 2 bedroom bungalow. The 2 buildings are detached but the (c1m) gap between them is bridged by brick archway (so possibly technically not detached? I'm not sure of the legalities). My purchase of the property would be dependent on my achieving some sort of rental return from the bungalow, be that Air BnB or full time rental, to contribute towards mortgage payments.

The orginal planning (20y ago) contains a number of routine conditions but also this:
"The development permitted shall not be occupied at any time other than for purposes
which form an integral part of the planning unit known as (name of main house here),
as indicated as being within the blue (or red) line on the approved plan received by the
Local Planning Authority on (date here) as a single dwelling unit."

I choose to read that as "you cant sell this off as a seperate house or business space" but can see that it could also potentially preclude any sort of rental...... If it is to be consider part of the same "single dwelling unit" then I would argue that I'm still allowed to rent out a room or rooms in my house to a lodger? (indeed am encouraged to do so by the governments rent a room tax break which specifically says "You can let out as much of your home as you want"). But would planning restrictions override this general norm?

Practically, I'm not sure how anyone relevant would find out or investigate? Nosy neighbours I suppose? Given the time elapsed it might be possible to ask for the condition to be clarified/amended/removed but my instinct is that asking the planning department would potentially open a giant can of worms and requesting a formal change of use might require updating the fabric of the building to current regs?

Any advice gratefully recieved! thanks for reading.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#397937

Postby UncleEbenezer » March 22nd, 2021, 12:33 pm

Sounds like a thou shalt not run a brothel clause. Or workshop. Or any business likely to cause a nuisance to neighbours.

If so, then regular letting shouldn't(?) be a problem, but something like airbnb might be.

IANAL.

rabbit
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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#397991

Postby rabbit » March 22nd, 2021, 2:34 pm

I think the key phrase here is "single dwelling unit". My immediate neighbours recently obtained planning permission to convert a small, redundant barn in their yard into, in effect, a detached annex to their existing house. They were very open with their neighbours that they had no intention of letting the property in any way, but wanted it to accommodate their adult children or other guests when visiting. We were all happy with that. The subsequent planning approval contained a similar clause to the one quoted here, but it went further in explicitly prohibiting any form of residential letting or holiday accommodation. I suspect that "single dwelling unit" means that the annex cannot be sold off or sub let (short or long term) to a separate household.

Lootman
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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#397993

Postby Lootman » March 22nd, 2021, 2:57 pm

Gilesyb27 wrote:it could also potentially preclude any sort of rental...... If it is to be consider part of the same "single dwelling unit" then I would argue that I'm still allowed to rent out a room or rooms in my house to a lodger? (indeed am encouraged to do so by the governments rent a room tax break which specifically says "You can let out as much of your home as you want"). But would planning restrictions override this general norm?

Practically, I'm not sure how anyone relevant would find out or investigate? Nosy neighbours I suppose? .

Personally I have never taken any notice of restrictive clauses like the one you cited. It may well have been included at the request of some long-dead neighbour and has no current real-life applicability. I have at different times rented out rooms, self-contained flats within my building and a converted outbuilding/barn. These are the kind of things where I take the view that it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

As you note, under normal circumstances nobody would know or care about you having tenants or subtenants. The one time it might come up is if you are in a dispute with a neighbour and that neighbour decides to use this as some kind of leverage. Whether that is likely might depend on how close your neighbours are to you, and of course how reasonable they are.

A couple of things to bear in mind are whether your mortgage allows such subletting. And whether you insurance policy does. I'd probably be fine with not telling the mortgage lender as they generally do not care as long as you keep up with the payments. The insurance company is another matter and not telling them might prejudice a future claim.

Your local authority will probably ask you who lives at your address, for council tax or voting purposes. It is just possible that might be a giveaway to the council that you are infringing their restriction. But that credits the average council employee with more intelligence than I have ever personally experienced.

Gilesyb27
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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#398085

Postby Gilesyb27 » March 22nd, 2021, 7:43 pm

Thanks all, the mortgage people are quite happy (indeed they consider it essential to lending me the money! :lol: Insurance might be trickier I guess......

I'm definitely more of a "better to ask forgiveness than permission" kinda guy, but a bit wary of betting a massive mortgage on this principle :shock:

PhaseThree

Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#398101

Postby PhaseThree » March 22nd, 2021, 8:45 pm

I went through something similar with my mothers place which had a separate granny annex installed in the 1980s. It had similar planning. The annex was allowed as long as its use was ancillary to that of the main dwelling and remained that way - Effectively two buildings but a single dwelling. We sold it that way in 2018.

Recently the new owners tried to divide the property and sell off the annex as a separate dwelling. This was picked up by the solicitors and the sale stalled. An application was made to planning to have the restriction removed - it was turned down. Apparently the planners are used to people trying to get around planning in this way. These restrictions are real and are enforced.

In your case I can see no reason why you can't let out rooms in your dwelling, as you note the government actively encourages this. The problem comes when a new dwelling is created as a result of this. If you maintain a single council tax registry, single water and electrical supply etc you should be fine.

Gilesyb27
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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#398638

Postby Gilesyb27 » March 24th, 2021, 12:55 pm

thanks, interesting to hear some personal experience! I can quite see that selling it risks being problematic (And I wouldnt want to!).

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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#398688

Postby chas49 » March 24th, 2021, 5:24 pm

What are the current owners doing - do they live in both bits, or rent it out? Have they ever asked the council for permission?

Surely your conveyancing solicitor will be advising you on this (and asking the vendor the right questions)?

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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#398697

Postby Mike88 » March 24th, 2021, 6:20 pm

A few years ago I attended an inquiry with the valuation office when a colleague appealed a decision to rate for Council tax purposes a granny annex as two dwellings. The main dwelling and annex were attached but the Valuation Office insisted that two separate Council Tax payments were required. We lost the appeal.

Given that the OPs properties are separate I guess each will be liable for Council Tax whether occupied or not.

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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#398704

Postby Lootman » March 24th, 2021, 6:39 pm

Mike88 wrote:A few years ago I attended an inquiry with the valuation office when a colleague appealed a decision to rate for Council tax purposes a granny annex as two dwellings. The main dwelling and annex were attached but the Valuation Office insisted that two separate Council Tax payments were required. We lost the appeal.

Given that the OPs properties are separate I guess each will be liable for Council Tax whether occupied or not.

Yes, same here, I once bought a property that was (somewhat informally) carved up into four units, and council tax was assessed on all four separately, even though I owned and had vacant possession of all four.

At some point I merged two of the units into one and, after some back and forth with the council, got the four bills reduced to three.

This can be handy if you are renting out the extra units, since then it is the tenant's responsibility to pay the council tax (as well as water, power, TV license and so on) for their unit.

Gilesyb27
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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#398877

Postby Gilesyb27 » March 25th, 2021, 12:02 pm

chas49 wrote:What are the current owners doing - do they live in both bits, or rent it out? Have they ever asked the council for permission?

Surely your conveyancing solicitor will be advising you on this (and asking the vendor the right questions)?


The current owners built it and were using it for its intended purpose (ie granny lived there). She has now passed away, the kids have moved out and the property in its entirety is too big for their needs. they've never rented it out. I suspect the conveyancing solicitor would love to get their teeth into all the details, but I wanted to know if anyone had a view of this being a non starter before paying for that and/or negotiating with the bank for a larger than planned mortgage!

Gilesyb27
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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#398880

Postby Gilesyb27 » March 25th, 2021, 12:05 pm

Lootman wrote:
Mike88 wrote:A few years ago I attended an inquiry with the valuation office when a colleague appealed a decision to rate for Council tax purposes a granny annex as two dwellings. The main dwelling and annex were attached but the Valuation Office insisted that two separate Council Tax payments were required. We lost the appeal.

Given that the OPs properties are separate I guess each will be liable for Council Tax whether occupied or not.

Yes, same here, I once bought a property that was (somewhat informally) carved up into four units, and council tax was assessed on all four separately, even though I owned and had vacant possession of all four.

At some point I merged two of the units into one and, after some back and forth with the council, got the four bills reduced to three.

This can be handy if you are renting out the extra units, since then it is the tenant's responsibility to pay the council tax (as well as water, power, TV license and so on) for their unit.


I'm waiting to hear re council tax (the estate agent thought they were done seperately) as this would seem to confirm that the bungalow could be rented to a tenant as you describe. fingers crossed!

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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#403520

Postby Wizard » April 12th, 2021, 8:10 am

Gilesyb27 wrote:
Lootman wrote:
Mike88 wrote:A few years ago I attended an inquiry with the valuation office when a colleague appealed a decision to rate for Council tax purposes a granny annex as two dwellings. The main dwelling and annex were attached but the Valuation Office insisted that two separate Council Tax payments were required. We lost the appeal.

Given that the OPs properties are separate I guess each will be liable for Council Tax whether occupied or not.

Yes, same here, I once bought a property that was (somewhat informally) carved up into four units, and council tax was assessed on all four separately, even though I owned and had vacant possession of all four.

At some point I merged two of the units into one and, after some back and forth with the council, got the four bills reduced to three.

This can be handy if you are renting out the extra units, since then it is the tenant's responsibility to pay the council tax (as well as water, power, TV license and so on) for their unit.


I'm waiting to hear re council tax (the estate agent thought they were done seperately) as this would seem to confirm that the bungalow could be rented to a tenant as you describe. fingers crossed!

Not sure where you are on this, but if it has a separate Council Tax bill the Council has effectively accepted it is a separate unit. A council tax bill is often used as evidence of a separate dwelling when people look to regularise the situation when a garage or similar has been separated illegally.

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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#403634

Postby Lootman » April 12th, 2021, 2:20 pm

Wizard wrote:
Gilesyb27 wrote:
Lootman wrote:Yes, same here, I once bought a property that was (somewhat informally) carved up into four units, and council tax was assessed on all four separately, even though I owned and had vacant possession of all four.

At some point I merged two of the units into one and, after some back and forth with the council, got the four bills reduced to three.

This can be handy if you are renting out the extra units, since then it is the tenant's responsibility to pay the council tax (as well as water, power, TV license and so on) for their unit.

I'm waiting to hear re council tax (the estate agent thought they were done seperately) as this would seem to confirm that the bungalow could be rented to a tenant as you describe. fingers crossed!

Not sure where you are on this, but if it has a separate Council Tax bill the Council has effectively accepted it is a separate unit. A council tax bill is often used as evidence of a separate dwelling when people look to regularise the situation when a garage or similar has been separated illegally.

It depends on what purpose you regard it as "regularised" for.

It is true that there were separate council tax bills for each unit. But then councils will always structure things to maximise their revenue. On the other hand it was still a single set of deeds and a single property insurance policy.

The electric and gas people regarded them as separate units and had separate meters. Same with TV licenses and landline phone connections. But the water people said it was one unit, unmetered. And there was one central heating system for all 4 units. Building consents were issued for the property as a whole. And so on.

So at least in our case it was a mixed bag. Each entity designated the building the way they wanted to.

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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#404471

Postby Gilesyb27 » April 15th, 2021, 12:33 pm

Wizard wrote:Not sure where you are on this, but if it has a separate Council Tax bill the Council has effectively accepted it is a separate unit. A council tax bill is often used as evidence of a separate dwelling when people look to regularise the situation when a garage or similar has been separated illegally.


Well, we've had an offer accepted and the conveyancing solicitor is doing their due diligence. The mood music seems to be that we can rent it out (as with a lodger in a spare bedroom) but that a change in planning would be required to sell it seperately (not on the cards).

I will update as we go along. Thanks again for everyone's interest and comments.

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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#404526

Postby pochisoldi » April 15th, 2021, 3:13 pm

Gilesyb27 wrote:Well, we've had an offer accepted and the conveyancing solicitor is doing their due diligence. The mood music seems to be that we can rent it out (as with a lodger in a spare bedroom) but that a change in planning would be required to sell it seperately (not on the cards).
I will update as we go along. Thanks again for everyone's interest and comments.


I wouldn't be surprised if the "rent-a-room" allowance might be available for such an arrangement, especially if the annexe doesn't come with a separate council tax bill.

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Re: Planning conditions on annexe/bungalow

#404567

Postby PinkDalek » April 15th, 2021, 5:12 pm

pochisoldi wrote:
Gilesyb27 wrote:Well, we've had an offer accepted and the conveyancing solicitor is doing their due diligence. The mood music seems to be that we can rent it out (as with a lodger in a spare bedroom) but that a change in planning would be required to sell it seperately (not on the cards).
I will update as we go along. Thanks again for everyone's interest and comments.


I wouldn't be surprised if the "rent-a-room" allowance might be available for such an arrangement, especially if the annexe doesn't come with a separate council tax bill.


The OP has already suggested there may be a separate Council Tax bill [to be confirmed] for what appears either to be a separate bungalow or an annex. I don't believe Rent-a-Room covers the situation for the reasons mentioned below, at least not without much more further information.

From what we've gleaned so far, it may not fall within the Temporary division qualifications here:

Rent-a-room: building divided into separate residences
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/property-income-manual/pim4004

Including:

But a building, or part of a building, which is designed for permanent use as a single residence shall be treated as a single residence notwithstanding that it is temporarily divided into two or more parts which are occupied or intended to be occupied as separate residences. etc etc

Would structural alterations be necessary to undo the division?

How long has the residence been divided?

How long is the division intended to continue?

Could possession of the flat be obtained separate from the property as a whole?

Is the flat separately supplied and metered for mains services?

Does the flat have its own unique postal address?

Does it have its own separate entry?

Would a mortgage lender be prepared to lend on the security of the separate flat?

This is not an exhaustive list of factors to be taken into account ...


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