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Flat tenant - medical issues

including wills and probate
monabri
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Flat tenant - medical issues

#439990

Postby monabri » September 6th, 2021, 10:50 am

We inherited a small 1 bed flat along with a tenant who has lived in the flat for 25 years. There is no issues with paying rent, these are paid every month on the dot.

However...

The tenant has medical issues and is reported to suffer from paranoid schizophrenia. He has been previously admitted to a facility and has an appointed social worker. He frequently claims that 'people are breaking into his flat and workshop and damaging his tools', reporting it to the police. He has, without permission, fitted numerous locks to doors and windows. We've asked him to remove the locks in case of fire (ignored). He has even fitted a lock with special prison screws on the main access door to the flat. We've expressed concern to his social worker but they cannot discuss matters without his permission, which he refuses to give.

Last night, the police rang. It seems that our tenant has again been phoning the fire brigade and police to complain about people breaking into his flat and moving and damaging his tools. The police seem to have told him to stop wasting their time and they reported to us that he had threatened to barricade himself in which the police officer advised would, in the event of a fire started accidentally or deliberately by the tenant, invalidate any insurance (the flat is above a shop).

In addition to taking legal advice which we plan to do, should we be contacting his social worker and doctor to advise of this latest turns of events? After all, we are his landlord and not social workers.

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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440002

Postby pje16 » September 6th, 2021, 11:27 am

Good luck with this @monabri
I would leave it to the solicitors
you don't want any of this to come back on you (he lives a fantasy world, to put it midly) so don't give him any reason to dream something up

tacpot12
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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440073

Postby tacpot12 » September 6th, 2021, 3:33 pm

The police at not even experts on legal matters, so I wouldn't trust them to advise you on insurance matters. I would advise that you check the situation with your own insurers. If you have legal expenses cover with them, and the insurers recommend evicting him, the legal expense cover might pay for all the legal work to do so.

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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440075

Postby Peanutte » September 6th, 2021, 3:41 pm

Two things spring to mind -

1. Are you on speaking terms with the tenant? Does he regard you as an ally or an enemy?

2. Don't take legal advice from a police officer (well, definitely not regarding a civil matter).

Pea.

monabri
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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440088

Postby monabri » September 6th, 2021, 4:20 pm

Peanutte wrote:Two things spring to mind -

1. Are you on speaking terms with the tenant? Does he regard you as an ally or an enemy?

2. Don't take legal advice from a police officer (well, definitely not regarding a civil matter).

Pea.



Yes, we are on speaking terms but he has, in the past, stalked my wife when she visits her mother in her house nearby (he waits in his car outside, crosses a dark, unlit car park and says something like "it's only me" or calls her name out). Very scary bearing in mind his medical history.

tacpot12's suggestion might be an avenue for exploration!

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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440298

Postby Peanutte » September 7th, 2021, 12:59 pm

I think you should keep a diary of all contact - when you discuss the locks and perhaps the (physical) security of his flat. Note when he tells you about people trying to break in, and what your response has been. Then if the worst happens and there was a fire, you would be able to demonstrate you that you had taken reasonable steps to help.

Do you sometimes have sensible conversations with him? Is there actually something happening which makes him think someone is trying to break in?

Could it be that local kids are knocking the door and running away? Is there a pub or club nearby from which groups of noisy people emerge possibly late - and which he could somehow think are people coming after him?
Could there be knocking or banging noises from a nearly building which he can hear?
Is it the central heating pipes? (Ours make a dreadful noise at times.)

In your shoes - I would alert his GP not just the social worker. He/she again will not discuss him with you, but may not be aware of his odd behaviour - may be able to review his medication. If he needs to be referred to specialist medical help, it's the GP who would do it not the social worker.
And as a bit of ar$e covering - if something dreadful happened - you could show that you were not ignoring the situation.

Btw - is there a threat of a fire? Does he smoke indoors? Or is someone being a bit dramatic?

monabri
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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440308

Postby monabri » September 7th, 2021, 1:23 pm

We have initiated legal advice (but it seems that as he was a tenant before 1989 there is very little we can do to evict him if we needed to). We have written to his GP previously and are doing so again with copy to his social worker (the police actually raised an incident report on Sunday night because of his calls to 999). He had security cameras installed and numerous padlocks (good quality) fitted. The solicitors initial advice was the best thing that can happen is if he were to be taken under medical care. Until recently, he had a cat and he had no way of disposing of the cat litter, hence bags of cat litter built up and the only reasonable way we could get rid of it was by burying it at the bottom of my Mother In law's Garden! The cat litter was in bags in the flat. We did inquire with the council about disposal of hazardous material but they forbade it - specialist disposal was going to cost several hundred pounds. He does have family (a sister) but she lives in Germany and essentially has abandoned him (she controls his trust fund BTW). The flat is best described as cluttered & dirty. We have helped him in the past to declutter and take things to the tip but there is a limit to how much we want to be 'social workers'.

Fortunately he does not smoke but he has a hobby which might lead to a fire risk (woodworking on a lathe). If any kids are playing him up (although I really doubt it) they need to step very cautiously indeed. In the past he has pelted the Police with flour from his upstairs window and been violent (using a hammer on a car). The main issue he has (and it is a repeated issue) is that "someone is breaking in and moving and damaging his tools". The installed security cameras showed nothing.

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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440411

Postby MrFoolish » September 7th, 2021, 6:44 pm

monabri wrote:The solicitors initial advice was the best thing that can happen is if he were to be taken under medical care.


It hardly constitutes "advice". Is that the best your solicitor can come up with for his money?

monabri
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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440429

Postby monabri » September 7th, 2021, 7:18 pm

MrFoolish wrote:
monabri wrote:The solicitors initial advice was the best thing that can happen is if he were to be taken under medical care.


It hardly constitutes "advice". Is that the best your solicitor can come up with for his money?


Ah, but that comes at £225 + vat per hour. We had his introduction email this afternoon.

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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440540

Postby Peanutte » September 8th, 2021, 9:49 am

Disclaimer IANAL

Trying to unpick this.

- He's a Protected Tenant - so presumably paying a small rent - you are not gaining financially from him being there..
- As a Protected Tenant you cannot evict him.
- He drives a car so presumably a fairly capable person.
- IANAL - but as far as I can see, you are stuck with him. The only way to get the flat back would be to offer him alternative accommodation - which he probably would not accept and you still would not be rid of him.
- You could offer to buy him out - but if you do make sure you do it through a solicitor so he can't later claim coercion.
- Or if he was sectioned under the mental health act (about which I know nothing) but I suspect not even that would end the tenancy.

Or you could offer the property for sale through one of the specialist agencies. Probably at a low price.

Is he old? In poor health? To put it bluntly - is it worth you struggling on? Do bear in mind that Protected Tenancies can be inherited - so the disinterested sister might suddenly become interested on his demise (so you would have to buy her out).

What will be the value of the property when it falls empty? Is it worth it?

So either - work out if it's particulary valuable (central London?) and do you want to struggle for x number of years until he dies to realise the value?

Or - sell.

If you decide to carry on, I think you will have to take on the responsibilies. The allocated social worker will have another 20 cases in his/her workload so cannot give this man much time - and what can he/she do anyway? The police are fed up with his repeated calling - they have other priorities - and they can't do anything either. From what you have described, the GP may be able to review medication but it doesn't sound as though he's bad enough to be Sectioned. No-one else has a vested interest in dealing with him - he is a 'nuisance' but when he eventually goes - you will be the ones who gain..

The benefit will be the value of the place when he eventually dies - either to you or to a purchaser.

I think you might have to stop treating it as a chore but as the price you have to pay for the benefit in the future.

Or sell, realise some value now and trade that for not having the work and worry.

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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440741

Postby pochisoldi » September 8th, 2021, 6:52 pm

Peanutte wrote:- He's a Protected Tenant - so presumably paying a small rent - you are not gaining financially from him being there..
- As a Protected Tenant you cannot evict him.


What makes him a protected tenant?

A 25 year old tenancy in E&W could quite easily be an AST.

On the other hand, if it is an AST, I would make certain that the tenant has been served with all required paperwork for an AST, and also a Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 Section 3 notice has been served notifying the change of landlord, to ensure that any repossession doesn't get thwarted.

Also note that if the tenant could be considered to be disabled, and a cack-handed approach could easily result in landlord triggered legal action being bounced back with Equality Act claim from the tenant... (This is a concern that should be brought up when getting any paid for legal advice).

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Re: Flat tenant - medical issues

#440940

Postby UncleEbenezer » September 9th, 2021, 12:25 pm

pochisoldi wrote:
Peanutte wrote:- He's a Protected Tenant - so presumably paying a small rent - you are not gaining financially from him being there..
- As a Protected Tenant you cannot evict him.


What makes him a protected tenant?

A 25 year old tenancy in E&W could quite easily be an AST.


Yes, but not a tenancy from before 1989. Eviction would only be possible if you can persuade a court there's a serious problem. No idea if anything in this tenant's behaviour would qualify, and unless there have been complaints from neighbours I'd take the path of least resistance and just be sure your a**e is covered against legal liability.


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