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Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

including wills and probate
Lootman
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#489756

Postby Lootman » March 28th, 2022, 2:36 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:You should also make it clear that if she manages to sell the property, but for less than its full market value, she will be liable to you for breach of that trust and that you will sue her for any losses incurred.

But wouldn't the winning bid at an auction be deemed the full market value, since at least at auction there is a process of open and transparent price discovery? What would worry me more is some kind of private sale at a discount where there would be a lot less publicity and scrutiny.

What is her plan after the sale? If she plans to take all that cash and relocate to a sunny foreign location that does not recognise UK court judgements, then she may not be worried about being sued by the OP. That would be my fear.

scrumpyjack
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#489763

Postby scrumpyjack » March 28th, 2022, 2:57 pm

I think you should apply for probate ASAP. It doesn't matter if some of the valuations etc are rough estimates or you discover further assets and liabilities afterwards, they can always be revised after probate simply by sending a letter to HMRC so that the IHT payable can be revised (a correctional is I believe the term used). I have had to do this in two of the cases where I was executor.

At least then you can keep an eye on local auctions and it may be probate comes through before the auction has taken place.

DrFfybes
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#489776

Postby DrFfybes » March 28th, 2022, 3:42 pm

Lootman wrote:
Clitheroekid wrote:You should also make it clear that if she manages to sell the property, but for less than its full market value, she will be liable to you for breach of that trust and that you will sue her for any losses incurred.

But wouldn't the winning bid at an auction be deemed the full market value, since at least at auction there is a process of open and transparent price discovery?


Not necessarily. Auctions are generally only open to those with ready cash available and therefore a very limited pool of buyers. That's why 'Homes Under the Hammer' is such rivetting viewing :)

Clitheroekid
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#489868

Postby Clitheroekid » March 28th, 2022, 8:50 pm

Lootman wrote:
Clitheroekid wrote:You should also make it clear that if she manages to sell the property, but for less than its full market value, she will be liable to you for breach of that trust and that you will sue her for any losses incurred.

But wouldn't the winning bid at an auction be deemed the full market value, since at least at auction there is a process of open and transparent price discovery?

Not necessarily. By selling at auction you are vastly reducing the pool of possible buyers to those who are effectively cash buyers. Many of these are buying as traders, with a view to selling the property on at a profit. Consequently, just like used car dealers, they are looking to pay the `retail' price less their profit.

Many people who are buying residential property need to borrow, but may well be willing to pay a higher price - the equivalent of the retail price for a used car.

This is why when a court orders a sale of the property they hardly ever order a sale by auction, as it's generally accepted that this will not get the best price. They will instead order a sale allowing a reasonable marketing period - say 3 to 6 months.

scrumpyjack
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#490048

Postby scrumpyjack » March 29th, 2022, 1:56 pm

Perhaps the ex's son is planning to bid at the auction if the price stays low? Otherwise you would think the ex would want the highest possible sale price.

dubre
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#492731

Postby dubre » April 8th, 2022, 10:38 am

property48
Please let us know how this matter evolves. I think that many on here will be interested,

My own view is that joint ownership has always carried high risk.

Good luck

hiriskpaul
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#493690

Postby hiriskpaul » April 12th, 2022, 10:00 am

From my recent experience in handling a difficult estate I would immediately appoint a solicitor to assist you. Once the ex receives a solicitors letter you may find that she becomes a lot less aggressive. In my case I had to get difficult with the main beneficiary who had his own idea about how the law worked and what he was entitled to. A litigious solicitors letter forced his cooperation.

You could still handle the Probate side yourself if you wanted to.

It does seem very suspicious to me that the ex is insisting on an auction. As others have said, you are unlikely to get the best price that way unless there are things that make the property unmortgageable.

hiriskpaul
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#493724

Postby hiriskpaul » April 12th, 2022, 1:19 pm

Have you considered buying the ex's share of the property? If not, I would put this to her even if you don't want to buy her share. She may be wanting to go to auction to realise a quick sell because she needs the money, in which case she should be amenable to you buying her out. If she flatly refuses that would be very suspicious.

Dod101
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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#493726

Postby Dod101 » April 12th, 2022, 1:29 pm

'Having read all of this thread it seems to me that your best way out is to offer them a price to buy out the estate. Obviously to protect yourself as executor you will need to get professional advice but that is not difficult.'

I agree with hiriskpaul but then I would as I said the above in my post of 25 March. I had no response from the OP so presumably that is a non starter.

Dod

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Re: Contentious Probate - Help Appreciated

#494823

Postby Grumpsimus » April 17th, 2022, 5:01 pm

This is certainly nothing to do with the Police.

Clearly, this situation is causing you a great deal of worry and some distress, with the other owner being difficult. I think this is an ideal situation for you to employee a Solicitor to deal with the Probate on your behalf. This would discharge your responsibilities as Executor.

A Solicitor would help sort out some of the strange ideas of the other side and their lack of knowledge of the law and even apparently how to behave in a reasonable way.

It is always important to get the right Solicitor and I have in the past known one or two would absolutely relish a case like this.


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