Employment Pickle -Again!

[Elvisbarney]

A relative of mine recently left her employment after two years, citing a period of bullying and intimidation over months by her immediate line-manager. The evidence which I have had relayed to me certainly seems to support this view. The Co. was aware of issues, although no formal grievance was ever initiated, and no action was taken against the manager although more senior managers were aware of ongoing problems. My relative finally was unable to endure the toxic working environment and felt compelled to leave.

A few months earlier my relative had applied for and was awarded a specialist training course by the company but due to the ongoing negativity did not actually begin the on-line course. The cost was £1.7k, with a proviso in a pre-signed contract of a requirement to repay the full costs if resigned/ left the employ within 3 months of completion of the course, deductible from the final wage.

The Co. relied upon the contract terms to demand the full amount. The Co solicitor, perhaps sensing some difficulties in enforcing the payment, suggested £500 as an amicable settlement, but with just 48 hrs to accept or the offer would be withdrawn.

My relative’s issue fundamentally is that she was in effect hounded from her employment with no proper opportunity or support to undertake the course. As stated, she never even commenced the training.
We argue the course, unopened and still in its shiny wrapper, remains an asset of the company and can be transferred to a subsequent employee as appropriate.

A reply letter to the solicitors for the Co.agrees an amicable settlement would be beneficial to both parties, but then we provided evidential examples of the conduct of the Co.towards its employee and a potential breach of employment law (Constructive Dismissal?).
We have suggested the resolution of a formal ‘Settlement Agreement’ as the appropriate way to avoid escalation to formal legal action.

Any views or advice greatly appreciated. Stick or twist?

[bungeejumper]

A small bit of info. Constructive dismissal would be a workable argument at an employment tribunal, and it can also serve as a vehicle for a damages claim. But the time limits are tight. You have to initiate the process within 3 months of leaving your employment, and there's no leeway.

You also have to have worked for the employer for at least two years, including your statutory notice period. Did your relative have the full 104 weeks? Just checking.

We looked into a constructive dismissal approach when my wife was squeezed out of her employment by bullying about five years ago, but to be honest it's a hell of an emotional grind, and the process can take 18 months, and many people feel that it's better just to move on, and stick a few needles into a wax dummy of your tormentor, and get back to normality.Especially since there's a huge backlog of employment tribunal cases waiting to be heard at the moment. (Or so I hear...)

That's what we did, certainly. It's unfair, of course, and the law's an ass, but what personal price should one be prepared to pay for the full exercise of one's legal rights? The answer will be different in every case. If there's a way forward that only costs your relative £500, then it might be preferable?

Commiserations to your relative!

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ ... dismissal/

BJ

[Elvisbarney]

Thankyou bungeejumper, apologies for delayed response as I was returning from abroad.
Yes, can confirm relative’s employment stretched beyond two years and am also aware of strict time-limit constraints (would that such limits applied to most legal matters!).

We still await a response from the Co.law firm, but am convinced they made their initial offer to settle completely oblivious to the company shenanigans of a rogue manager.

[Elvisbarney]

Result!
Following a letter addressed directly to the solicitor representing the Company, the Co. caved in at the first mention of the possibility of a Constructive Dismissal case being brought as a result of the conduct of a rogue manager.
So the company ( or its solicitor) went from aggressively demanding £1,700 reimbursement for the cost of a training course which was never begun, to OK we will be really nice to you if you give us just £500 but agree within 48 hours or else, to OK then, on this occasion we have decided we will not ask for a single penny. But please, please sign the Acas form saying you won’t take us to court.

Is there really anything sweeter than a ‘legal’ threatening and demanding their client be compensated, but then performing the ultimate reverse-ferret and capitulating at the first whiff of a legal challenge?
Forgive my broad smile on this occasion.

[stevensfo]

Result!
Following a letter addressed directly to the solicitor representing the Company, the Co. caved in at the first mention of the possibility of a Constructive Dismissal case being brought as a result of the conduct of a rogue manager.
So the company ( or its solicitor) went from aggressively demanding £1,700 reimbursement for the cost of a training course which was never begun, to OK we will be really nice to you if you give us just £500 but agree within 48 hours or else, to OK then, on this occasion we have decided we will not ask for a single penny. But please, please sign the Acas form saying you won’t take us to court.

Is there really anything sweeter than a ‘legal’ threatening and demanding their client be compensated, but then performing the ultimate reverse-ferret and capitulating at the first whiff of a legal challenge?
Forgive my broad smile on this occasion.

Surely, they must have included that famous phrase that always makes me see red: '..and as a gesture of goodwill...'

Steve

[modellingman]

Result!
Following a letter addressed directly to the solicitor representing the Company, the Co. caved in at the first mention of the possibility of a Constructive Dismissal case being brought as a result of the conduct of a rogue manager.
So the company ( or its solicitor) went from aggressively demanding £1,700 reimbursement for the cost of a training course which was never begun, to OK we will be really nice to you if you give us just £500 but agree within 48 hours or else, to OK then, on this occasion we have decided we will not ask for a single penny. But please, please sign the Acas form saying you won’t take us to court.

Is there really anything sweeter than a ‘legal’ threatening and demanding their client be compensated, but then performing the ultimate reverse-ferret and capitulating at the first whiff of a legal challenge?
Forgive my broad smile on this occasion.

Personally, I might be tempted to do a bit of research on successful constructive dismissal cases at employment tribunal and gauge what your relative might be looking at and then respond to the ex-employer's solicitors with a counter proposal for the compensation they should be offering the relative. A compensation offer of zero, effectively what the relative is being offered, isn't exactly generous, so, as they now seem to be on the back foot, why not push for what is more reasonable?

modellingman

[Elvisbarney]

Modellingman, thanks for the suggestion. Personally, I agree there is potentially some mileage in asking for a little more due to the angst etc caused to date.
However the relative is about to commence a new job albeit at a reduced salary, but the experience has battered her and she just wants to move on.
I note however, the rapidity with which the Co. contacted Acas, and the even greater rapidity in which Acas contacted my relative inviting her to sign some form (yet to be received and scrutinised) in order to negate any future proposed legal action.
Something still seems a tad fishy here!

[bungeejumper]

I note however, the rapidity with which the Co. contacted Acas, and the even greater rapidity in which Acas contacted my relative inviting her to sign some form (yet to be received and scrutinised) in order to negate any future proposed legal action.

Something still seems a tad fishy here!

You've just reminded me of something. Namely, where you said:

The Co. relied upon the contract terms to demand the full amount. The Co solicitor, perhaps sensing some difficulties in enforcing the payment, suggested £500 as an amicable settlement, but with just 48 hrs to accept or the offer would be withdrawn.

A long, long time ago, I was involved in an intermediary capacity in some redundancy cases, where my objective was to get the best financial deal possible for some people who were being fired.

And one of them was being fired for being an awkward bugger. He'd been winding up his bosses for years with his old-fashioned ways, and then one day he'd refused point-blank to work with a computer, which wasn't perhaps the world's best career move, even in the 1990s. So he'd come into work the next morning and found a black bag on his desk, and his manager had told him to clear out his stuff, and that he had until midday to sign his redundancy terms.

And he phoned me, and I phoned ACAS. And the ACAS guy said, basically: "Does that manager know that an employee must be given time to get independent advice before he signs a document that fixes his severance terms? A lawyer, perhaps, or a trade union adviser?"

"And does he know that, by trying to deny that consultation right to his employee, he is very probably committing a criminal offence, for which company directors have been held personally liable in the past? And that the potential remedies might include prison?"

I passed the message back down the line. By the end of the day, they'd trebled his payoff terms.

BJ