Our Deeds are stored with Barclays, should we take possession of them & Register them with the Land Registry

[Clitheroekid]

If the Deeds are not registered with the LR, then get it done ASAP.

It makes things sooooo much easier - these days the Conveyancing process is nearly all electronic.

It's worse than that AIUI.

"The deeds" are a collection of legal documents proving transfers of ownership going back to when the place was built, and without this collection of documents no-one will believe you own it.

So consequently no-one will buy it and no lender will grant any potential future buyer a mortgage. Once the LR have registered it, ownership is treated as proven and the chain of docs known as the deeds become redundant for proving ownership. There are a million other reasons to keep the set of docs once registered at the LR but none are so important in comparison.

i expect CK will come along now and say all this is a load of tosh!

This is a load of tosh! (Well I wouldn't want to disappoint you)

To answer the original questions:

If we take possession of the Deeds,
1: can we Register them with the LR,

Yes, though you'd probably need a solicitor to do it for you, as it's more complicated than registering a transfer of a registered title.

2: if they are Registered can the survivor sell without the original Deeds

Yes. Once the title's been registered the deeds are irrelevant.

3: can we get (how?) a Certified copy to be lodged with our Executors, in case we lose the originals (by fire, theft flood etc)

I can't see that there would be any point in doing so. The only justification for taking possession of the deeds would be to register the title, and as the deeds have no importance after registration it doesn't matter if they are lost or destroyed.

However, although you can register the title voluntarily it's by no means necessary to do so. It's still not uncommon, particularly in rural areas, to sell a property with an unregistered title. From the seller's point of view it's not much more difficult than selling a registered title, though the process is different. When selling a registered title the seller's solicitor simply downloads a copy of the information held at the Land Registry as proof of title. With an unregistered title the solicitor prepares an `epitome of title', which is a set of copies of the deeds showing the change of ownership over the past 20 years.

It's more of a problem for the buyer's solicitor, as they have to have the skill and knowledge to examine the deeds and make sense of them - and as most domestic conveyancing is now handled by unqualified `paralegals' most of them don't have a clue, which means an actual solicitor is needed. Also, the purchaser has to apply for first registration of title, which is, as I mentioned, more complicated and more expensive. However,as the seller this really isn't your problem.

So in summary there's a lot to be said for maintaining the status quo, saving yourself some money, and leaving the deeds where they are, so that registration can be dealt with when the house is eventually sold.

And finally, it's just as easy for the surviving spouse to sell an unregistered title as it would be if you were both still alive.

[Elvisbarney]

From personal experience, I would treat the physical holding of property Title Deeds in the same way as an I.E.D.- you simply do not know when it might explode in your face.
Some years ago as the health of my elderly father deteriorated, I made the decision using Power of Attorney to sell his property and move him into my house.
The property sold (subject to contract) almost immediately, at which point I hired the services of a reputable lawyer. The deeds, I was reliably informed by my father many times over the years were lodged with a local named solicitor.
My lawyer requested the immediate production of the Title Deeds from said solicitor, and received the blunt response, “We do not hold the deeds.” No buts, no ifs.

So began the most stressful roller-coaster period of my life, where by good grace I was finally able to prove the holding lawyers had been less than truthful with the actualité and they were entirely responsible for the irretrievable loss of the Title Deeds.

My outlook now with regard to a variety of highly important legal documents (title deeds, original wills etc) is do not trust a solicitor or a bank to hold them securely, unless accompanied by a fully signed and dated letter acknowledging possession.
Not worth the risk, get the Deeds registered with the LR!
Oh, and don’t think the Legal Ombudsman will be interested in your plight when things go wrong.

[Gilgongo]

My parents' house isn't registered, but the deeds are lodged with their solicitor. They told me that if we ever came to sell it, the registration process would be done at the same time and wouldn't need to hinder the sale (unlike other stuff that might happen). So I thought it probably isn't worth paying for registration before then.

Good idea about a confirmation letter though.

[DrFfybes]

My parents' house isn't registered, but the deeds are lodged with their solicitor. They told me that if we ever came to sell it, the registration process would be done at the same time and wouldn't need to hinder the sale (unlike other stuff that might happen). So I thought it probably isn't worth paying for registration before then.

Good idea about a confirmation letter though.

Assuming the solicitors aren't taken over, move premises, go bust, or a whole host of other things that might do wrong. It isn't expensive compared to the potential hassle.

Paul

[AJC5001]

My mum & dad bought their house in the early 80s and their deeds were held by a local solicitor. When my mother died in 2013 (dad died 1995), I had to compile all 38 documents relating to the property, which I obtained from her solicitor, list them out and send them in a big bundle to Land Registry for scanning.

Does that mean the Land Registry actually scans all 38 documents and retains digital files of all of them? If so, are these digital files available to view?

Adrian

[Lootman]

My mum & dad bought their house in the early 80s and their deeds were held by a local solicitor. When my mother died in 2013 (dad died 1995), I had to compile all 38 documents relating to the property, which I obtained from her solicitor, list them out and send them in a big bundle to Land Registry for scanning.

Does that mean the Land Registry actually scans all 38 documents and retains digital files of all of them? If so, are these digital files available to view?

I doubt it. My last set of deeds ran to over 100 pages (it was an old house). And the pages were in odd sizes and in a variety of scripts.

Maybe the first few pages were scanned, but I know for a fact that the buyer does not have them all, nor access to them all.

[monabri]

My mum & dad bought their house in the early 80s and their deeds were held by a local solicitor. When my mother died in 2013 (dad died 1995), I had to compile all 38 documents relating to the property, which I obtained from her solicitor, list them out and send them in a big bundle to Land Registry for scanning.

Does that mean the Land Registry actually scans all 38 documents and retains digital files of all of them? If so, are these digital files available to view?

Adrian

I assumed that all docs would be scanned. Looking at the property on Land Registry, only the Title Plan and the Title Register (2 documents) seem to be available to buy online.

[Dod101]

Does that mean the Land Registry actually scans all 38 documents and retains digital files of all of them? If so, are these digital files available to view?

Adrian

I assumed that all docs would be scanned. Looking at the property on Land Registry, only the Title Plan and the Title Register (2 documents) seem to be available to buy online.

If it is anything like what would happen in Scotland, I think the LR may scan the last few transactions and that provides sufficient proof of title for them to make the entry in the Land Registry. That entry then becomes the only title required for future transactions. The LR would then return the documents to the owner as they now have no further value for proving ownership, merely historical interest. As I said earlier, I have the history of my house and all the transactions concerning its land over the last 175 years or so. Interesting at the time but of no real value.

Dod

[Lootman]

I assumed that all docs would be scanned. Looking at the property on Land Registry, only the Title Plan and the Title Register (2 documents) seem to be available to buy online.

If it is anything like what would happen in Scotland, I think the LR may scan the last few transactions and that provides sufficient proof of title for them to make the entry in the Land Registry. That entry then becomes the only title required for future transactions. The LR would then return the documents to the owner as they now have no further value for proving ownership, merely historical interest. As I said earlier, I have the history of my house and all the transactions concerning its land over the last 175 years or so. Interesting at the time but of no real value.

Same in England. For my last sale my solicitor took the view that he was only going to provide to the LR the legal minimum to establish good title.

The stuff from the 1800s was omitted. I recall him saying that providing that might encourage frivolous actions of no merit.

And after all, I could have accidentally "lost" those pages anyway.

Of course all of this is moot if you have a mortgage, since then the lender would have the physical deeds.

[Clitheroekid]

Of course all of this is moot if you have a mortgage, since then the lender would have the physical deeds.

It's now very unlikely that any mortgage providers are holding physical deeds. Entering into a mortgage of an unregistered property means that the title is automatically registered, following which the deeds would be returned to the borrower, and any mortgages entered into before compulsory registration would have been paid off decades ago.

[Clitheroekid]

My mum & dad bought their house in the early 80s and their deeds were held by a local solicitor. When my mother died in 2013 (dad died 1995), I had to compile all 38 documents relating to the property, which I obtained from her solicitor, list them out and send them in a big bundle to Land Registry for scanning.

Does that mean the Land Registry actually scans all 38 documents and retains digital files of all of them? If so, are these digital files available to view?

To address Monabri's post, and for the guidance of others, there was no need to scan all the 38 documents. The large majority of them would have been of no interest at all to LR - they only want documents that evidence title to the house, any charges to which it is subject and any rights etc that affect the title.

And to answer AJC5001's post, firstly they wouldn't have scanned 38 documents - maybe half a dozen at most, but more usually only two or three. The only documents scanned other than those inducing registration are those containing covenants, easements and so on that affect the title. Such deeds would always be referred to in the published register, and copies can be bought in the same way that copies of the register and filed plan are bought.