Our Deeds are stored with Barclays, should we take possession of them & Register them with the Land Registry

[effsweet]

Hello all,
I hope 2024 is kind to you.
Background:
As the heading we would welcome answers & comments.
I’m currently waiting for a pacemaker upgrade to a cardiac resynchronisation therapy device
The procedure is not without risk
In preparation we have considered if we should progress Registering our property with the Land Registry
We own our bungalow, the mortgage was paid off some time ago, the Deeds are held by the Woolwich (now Barclays). If we want sight of the Deeds, Barclays won’t take them back.
If one of us dies, the survivor would want to sell up & move
Questions:
If we take possession of the Deeds,
1: can we Register them with the LR,
2: if they are Registered can the survivor sell without the original Deeds
3: can we get (how?) a Certified copy to be lodged with our Executors, in case we lose the originals (by fire, theft flood etc)

I think the answers are: Yes/Yes (but it’s more complicated)/Probably, a solicitor to certify a copy/copies?

We ask as we want to avoid any delay in a property sale after first death

Effsweet

[DrFfybes]

If the Deeds are not registered with the LR, then get it done ASAP.

It makes things sooooo much easier - these days the Conveyancing process is nearly all electronic.

Also once registered with the LR, make user ALL the Deeds are on there - and after that they are really only of Historical Interest.

The only proof of access to this place is a 1950s paper document that I keep meaning to get added to the LR entry. Without it the house is unsellable until another easement is negotiated.

Note to self - job for this week.

Paul

[Mike4]

If the Deeds are not registered with the LR, then get it done ASAP.

It makes things sooooo much easier - these days the Conveyancing process is nearly all electronic.

It's worse than that AIUI.

"The deeds" are a collection of legal documents proving transfers of ownership going back to when the place was built, and without this collection of documents no-one will believe you own it.

So consequently no-one will buy it and no lender will grant any potential future buyer a mortgage. Once the LR have registered it, ownership is treated as proven and the chain of docs known as the deeds become redundant for proving ownership. There are a million other reasons to keep the set of docs once registered at the LR but none are so important in comparison.

i expect CK will come along now and say all this is a load of tosh!

[DrFfybes]

i expect CK will come along now and say all this is a load of tosh!

Probably, but he'll do it far more politely.

[Arborbridge]

If the Deeds are not registered with the LR, then get it done ASAP.

It makes things sooooo much easier - these days the Conveyancing process is nearly all electronic.

It's worse than that AIUI.

"The deeds" are a collection of legal documents proving transfers of ownership going back to when the place was built, and without this collection of documents no-one will believe you own it.

So consequently no-one will buy it and no lender will grant any potential future buyer a mortgage. Once the LR have registered it, ownership is treated as proven and the chain of docs known as the deeds become redundant for proving ownership. There are a million other reasons to keep the set of docs once registered at the LR but none are so important in comparison.

i expect CK will come along now and say all this is a load of tosh!

I'm so ignorant, I don't even know what it means to "register the deeds with the Land Registry". I know we are registered owners at the LR, but that's about as far as my knowledge goes. I'm not sure I ever saw any deeds, or have ever seen any when I've bought or sold houses.

Arb.

[monabri]

I'm so ignorant, I don't even know what it means to "register the deeds with the Land Registry". I know we are registered owners at the LR, but that's about as far as my knowledge goes. I'm not sure I ever saw any deeds, or have ever seen any when I've bought or sold houses.

Arb.

My mum & dad bought their house in the early 80s and their deeds were held by a local solicitor. When my mother died in 2013 (dad died 1995), I had to compile all 38 documents relating to the property, which I obtained from her solicitor, list them out and send them in a big bundle to Land Registry for scanning.

You can go online to see if your deeds are registered.. it's free to check.

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-abou ... s-of-deeds


(Didn't you move house in the last few years? if you did then it should all be online.)

[Dod101]

It's worse than that AIUI.

"The deeds" are a collection of legal documents proving transfers of ownership going back to when the place was built, and without this collection of documents no-one will believe you own it.

So consequently no-one will buy it and no lender will grant any potential future buyer a mortgage. Once the LR have registered it, ownership is treated as proven and the chain of docs known as the deeds become redundant for proving ownership. There are a million other reasons to keep the set of docs once registered at the LR but none are so important in comparison.

i expect CK will come along now and say all this is a load of tosh!

I'm so ignorant, I don't even know what it means to "register the deeds with the Land Registry". I know we are registered owners at the LR, but that's about as far as my knowledge goes. I'm not sure I ever saw any deeds, or have ever seen any when I've bought or sold houses.

Arb.

You therefore have no need to worry. The LT is accepted as the authority and that is all the proof that you need. When I last moved in 2006 (in Scotland) the buyer of my Victorian house was given all the deeds and he had to register them with the LR. The deeds went back to when the house was built in 1897/8 and had a trail from them to me. When I bought the place I now have it was even more quaint, back to 1846 when the feu charter was granted and then everyone who owned the property since. That was all sent to the LR; they gave me a nice certificate and all the other papers were given to me to do what I liked with. They lie in box in my loft and are of academic interest only.

Dod

[Arborbridge]

You therefore have no need to worry. The LT is accepted as the authority and that is all the proof that you need. When I last moved in 2006 (in Scotland) the buyer of my Victorian house was given all the deeds and he had to register them with the LR. The deeds went back to when the house was built in 1897/8 and had a trail from them to me. When I bought the place I now have it was even more quaint, back to 1846 when the feu charter was granted and then everyone who owned the property since. That was all sent to the LR; they gave me a nice certificate and all the other papers were given to me to do what I liked with. They lie in box in my loft and are of academic interest only.

Dod

Thanks for that reassurance, Dod. But how nice to have all that history! My houses have all been too new. Even the beloved family home in Co Durham was only 1920s.

Arb.

[genou]

When I last moved in 2006 (in Scotland) the buyer of my Victorian house was given all the deeds and he had to register them with the LR.
Dod

<pedant> That would have been with the Land Registry of Scotland , a completely separate beast from HM Land Registry ( for England and Wales ).

And your Scottish deeds were almost certainly already registered, but with the General Register of Sasines, the oldest land registry in the world. When they decided to go digital, they decided to migrate to a new register.

</pedant>

[Dod101]

When I last moved in 2006 (in Scotland) the buyer of my Victorian house was given all the deeds and he had to register them with the LR.
Dod

<pedant> That would have been with the Land Registry of Scotland , a completely separate beast from HM Land Registry ( for England and Wales ).

And your Scottish deeds were almost certainly already registered, but with the General Register of Sasines, the oldest land registry in the world. When they decided to go digital, they decided to migrate to a new register.

</pedant>

Indeed. I could have added all that but did not feel that it had much relevance to the current discussion. The principle is exactly the same.

Dod

[CliffEdge]

And once you have registered you ownership with the LR set up a property alert on your property. Free of charge, alerts you to any nefarious activity concerning your home ownership that might do you harm.

[genou]

[

Indeed. I could have added all that but did not feel that it had much relevance to the current discussion. The principle is exactly the same.

Dod

My apologies. I failed to infer your level of knowledge from a post saying that you had registered a house in Scotland with the LR.

[Lootman]

a

If the Deeds are not registered with the LR, then get it done ASAP. It makes things sooooo much easier - these days the Conveyancing process is nearly all electronic.

It's worse than that AIUI.

"The deeds" are a collection of legal documents proving transfers of ownership going back to when the place was built, and without this collection of documents no-one will believe you own it.

So consequently no-one will buy it and no lender will grant any potential future buyer a mortgage. Once the LR have registered it, ownership is treated as proven and the chain of docs known as the deeds become redundant for proving ownership. There are a million other reasons to keep the set of docs once registered at the LR but none are so important in comparison.

If you are not registered with the LR you can still sell, in the old-fashioned way. You just provide the physical deeds to your solicitor as part of the conveyancing process. I did this in 2010 and my guy registered it at that time.

It was a shame in a way because the house dated from the 1760s and the paper deeds were a 3 inch stack of papers going back that far, partly hand-written, partly typed and partly printed. It named every owner, and cited its use for various purposes, including a military barracks and an inn. All that would be lost to the new owner if it was just an annotation at the LR.

[Dod101]

[

Indeed. I could have added all that but did not feel that it had much relevance to the current discussion. The principle is exactly the same.

Dod

My apologies. I failed to infer your level of knowledge from a post saying that you had registered a house in Scotland with the LR.

No need to apologise but thanks. Of course I did not do the registering, my solicitor did as any unregistered property needs to have the titles forwarded to the LR for registration at the time of any sale so that eventually all titles will be registered with the LR.

Dod

[didds]

Thanks for that reassurance, Dod. But how nice to have all that history! My houses have all been too new. Even the beloved family home in Co Durham was only 1920s.
Arb.

Ours was built in 1926/27. When out then mortgage lender (Derbyshire BS? ISTR!) did all the electronic registrations they sent us the bundle of documents a.k.a. "the deeds" which then were purely of aesthetic and academic interest. But we definitely have them... hand written documents and hand drawn diagrams.

didds

[Charlottesquare]

a

It's worse than that AIUI.

"The deeds" are a collection of legal documents proving transfers of ownership going back to when the place was built, and without this collection of documents no-one will believe you own it.

So consequently no-one will buy it and no lender will grant any potential future buyer a mortgage. Once the LR have registered it, ownership is treated as proven and the chain of docs known as the deeds become redundant for proving ownership. There are a million other reasons to keep the set of docs once registered at the LR but none are so important in comparison.

If you are not registered with the LR you can still sell, in the old-fashioned way. You just provide the physical deeds to your solicitor as part of the conveyancing process. I did this in 2010 and my guy registered it at that time.

It was a shame in a way because the house dated from the 1760s and the paper deeds were a 3 inch stack of papers going back that far, partly hand-written, partly typed and partly printed. It named every owner, and cited its use for various purposes, including a military barracks and an inn. All that would be lost to the new owner if it was just an annotation at the LR.

There are downsides though with old deeds, I have on my desk a 1894 (or 7) deed for a property that I cannot read, I am going to have to magnify it to have a chance and frankly what I am looking for in the deed I doubt exists (rights /burdens regarding adjoining land), however the property has still to be registered and its owner (my employer) wants my opinion. (Whilst not a solicitor I have worked in property investment/development for last 26 years so have accrued a little understanding)

Land Certs can sometimes be simpler though I am more comfortable reading Dispositions etc, if I can actually physically read them. ( We once had to rope in my father (a retired solicitor who qualified in the early 50s) to read a deed from 1603 written in hybrid Scots/Latin, apparently more recently qualified solicitors have little understanding of Latin!!!!)

[genou]

, apparently more recently qualified solicitors have little understanding of Latin!!!!)

I'm pretty sure I was in the last Glasgow LLB matriculation that required Latin, in '76 ( your judgement on how recent that is ) . Most faculties had binned the Latin requirement before that.

[Charlottesquare]

, apparently more recently qualified solicitors have little understanding of Latin!!!!)

I'm pretty sure I was in the last Glasgow LLB matriculation that required Latin, in '76 ( your judgement on how recent that is ) . Most faculties had binned the Latin requirement before that.

If 76 LLB the only way you would still be practicing is if you work for yourself/small partnership, all the bigger firms would have axed you at age 60 latest.

I am of the 1980 Edinburgh matriculation era (Not law) where you still needed a foreign language to even become a student irrespective of subject (Might have just been Faculty of Arts) my woeful O Grade French (C) being what got me in as I had been slung out of Latin at age 14 as I was 19= out of 20.)

[genou]

If 76 LLB the only way you would still be practicing is if you work for yourself/small partnership, all the bigger firms would have axed you at age 60 latest.

Never held a practicing certificate in my puff, but I know what you mean.

[chas49]

Moderator Message:
Can we stay on-topic re the OP's original topic please? Thanks (chas49)