Who owns the public/shared land on a housing estate?

[MyNameIsUrl]

A relative is thinking of buying a house on a housing estate built about 6 years ago.

The Land Registry plan clearly shows the red outline of the house and garden, but no mention of the nearby allocated car parking spot. Whilst I understand that often Local Authorities adopt the main tarmac roads through an estate, it seem to me unlikely they would own all the block-paved allocated spaces.

Typically, who does own the spaces? Would there be a plan at the Land Registry? Who normally maintains such spaces, and does anyone police their usage to avoid 'trespassers' parking there?

[BullDog]

That's a good question and I suspect the answer isn't straightforward. I have seen recently that even freehold houses on new housing developments now come with service charges in addition to council tax. We're used to this for leasehold apartments etc... But as far as I know, charging households to care for common areas on new build estates is becoming much more the norm. I suspect councils are encouraging this behind the scenes as a stealth supplementary council tax. Areas that you would once have naturally assumed were under council care often don't seem to be on these new build estates. I might add, the houses on the new build estates are still liable for full council tax despite the council seemingly having less responsibility for maintenance.

(As an aside, our council now charges extra to take away garden waste such as lawn and hedge trimmings. Another rise in tax that we are not supposed to notice.)

[Neutrino]

Land Registry allows a search for land and property by map or postcode. If you can find the title number you can purchase a copy of the Title and Plan.
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

[MyNameIsUrl]

Land Registry allows a search for land and property by map or postcode. If you can find the title number you can purchase a copy of the Title and Plan.
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

Yes, we got the plan of the property from Land Registry, but it only lists house addresses - there are no plans available for the bits in between i.e. the roads, verges, parking spaces etc. Presumably someone must own the land and hold the deeds, but they don't seem to be available to the public.

[tjh290633]

When we bought our first house our boundary was the centre line of the road, until such time that it was adopted by the local authority.

TJH

[Clitheroekid]

Land Registry allows a search for land and property by map or postcode. If you can find the title number you can purchase a copy of the Title and Plan.
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry

Yes, we got the plan of the property from Land Registry, but it only lists house addresses - there are no plans available for the bits in between i.e. the roads, verges, parking spaces etc. Presumably someone must own the land and hold the deeds, but they don't seem to be available to the public.

The land will be registered, and it is therefore possible to obtain details of its ownership. Try using the Land Registry map search facility - https://search-property-information.ser ... ind-by-map

[UncleEbenezer]

Yes, we got the plan of the property from Land Registry, but it only lists house addresses - there are no plans available for the bits in between i.e. the roads, verges, parking spaces etc. Presumably someone must own the land and hold the deeds, but they don't seem to be available to the public.

The land will be registered, and it is therefore possible to obtain details of its ownership. Try using the Land Registry map search facility - https://search-property-information.ser ... ind-by-map

Does that differ from the plans shown in the deeds of a property, that will be checked by a conveyancing solicitor whose business it is to point out anything that might be unexpected to a buyer?

If so, how would one know which prevails in any given situation?

[Clitheroekid]

Does that differ from the plans shown in the deeds of a property, that will be checked by a conveyancing solicitor whose business it is to point out anything that might be unexpected to a buyer?

If so, how would one know which prevails in any given situation?

No, the LR plans are based on the plan in the transfer of the property (though the large majority of transfers don't contain a plan). And in turn, transfer plans are invariably based on the LR plans.

However, boundary disputes can arise because the boundaries shown on the LR plans are only `general boundaries', and are not designed to be accurate to a high degree. This is why you read those depressingly common cases of idiots spending £100k on an argument over a strip of land a few inches wide.

It is possible to register a `determined boundary', where the parties file an agreed plan showing a boundary to a matter of inches, but it's extremely rare.

[9873210]

The question is who owns a piece of land, not how big it is. A missing tract on a plat is an entirely different thing than uncertainty about boundaries. Are the LR critics claiming the LR has boundaries so general that the topology is wrong?

[UncleEbenezer]

The question is who owns a piece of land, not how big it is. A missing tract on a plat is an entirely different thing than uncertainty about boundaries. Are the LR critics claiming the LR has boundaries so general that the topology is wrong?

I was interested in CK's reply to me for my own reason. I live in a converted building by the river. My neighbours in the same situation believe we (each) technically own the river to halfway across outside our respective houses. I've seen no clear evidence to determine that one way or t'other: the plan with the deeds shows only the area of the building itself. So, do I in fact own a tiny slice of river?

[U962]

No idea about rivers as it might be complicated by riparian right but
There is an old court case relating to private roads/ways

As I recall the judgement went something like this - my paraphrase from memory
Where a way which is not a full highway in public ownership runs between two parcels of land then unless the way is definitively owned by one or other of the frontagers to that way or else by a third party then it is determined that each of the frontagers owned the land of the way up to the centreline of the way for the distance that their land "fronts" onto the way.

Ownership of the land of a non highway is different of course to any public rights of passage along the land (foot,cycle,drift,BOAT)
Full public highways are owned and maintained by the council/Government.
This is regardless of what the deeds might say.
I live on a private road which is not a public highway and nor does it have any public rights of way along it. I along with all the other residents claim ownership of the land of the private road up to the centreline of the 'road' for the length of our properties.
I know of another private road where the land of the way from one side to the other including the verges is definitely owned by the big house at the end while there is a public footpath right of access along it (which diverts off prior to the house)

*Drift - the now defunct driftway being a right to drive animals along it.

[Lootman]

I live in a converted building by the river. My neighbours in the same situation believe we (each) technically own the river to halfway across outside our respective houses. I've seen no clear evidence to determine that one way or t'other: the plan with the deeds shows only the area of the building itself. So, do I in fact own a tiny slice of river?

For many years I owned a property that backed onto a river. Nobody else had access to that stretch of river nor could even see it, so I treated it as mine regardless.

But I would not have wanted to be deemed to have formal ownership of the river, or half of it. One person drowned in it whilst I was there. And another time part of a dry stone wall collapsed into the river, diverting the water causing it to flood several houses downstream.

Best not to have the liability. I always assumed that a river belongs to an authority (national, local, the military, a national park etc.) and not to the neighbours of its meandering route.

[didds]

Best not to have the liability. I always assumed that a river belongs to an authority (national, local, the military, a national park etc.) and not to the neighbours of its meandering route.

and a meandering route that in certain conditions may mean "you" end up "owning" the river when it had never ever been there before!

[kempiejon]

I think the landowner has the bank wherever the river goes. When I used to paddle we used to get grumpy about some landowners trying to restrict river routes as they maintained the river running through or adjacent to their land they had control over. Landowners can sell fishing rights from their land and the anglers didn't like the disruption of us innocuous kayakers. The British Canoe association membership conveys a right of access in rivers, canals etc that if I remember correctly dates back to Magna Carta but you have to launch where there is access.

Moderator Message:
Tiny edit to fix a typo before anyone goes offtopic on it (chas49)

[pompeygazza]

I would suggest that the original deeds, seeming as it's only 6 years old, would be a good place to start. I would assume that the parking space and any caveats (no running a business from home and no work vans are good ones) would be in there. If the space isn't mentioned then it isn't allocated and can be used by anyone. My wifes former home had a similar allocated space and it was shown on the deeds as such.