The Lemon Fool

Can someone point me to the latest ID requirements for solicitors who are distributing estates.

A search for "Law society know your client" or "law society money laundering regulations" should give you some pointers.

Note that ID checks are to ensure the right person gets the money/bequest, so it's a case of the solicitor avoiding a negligence action rather than having to meet statutory requirements.

Pochisoldi

The money laundering regs just says "proof to their satisfaction". They make no suggestion exactly how this is to be achieved.
To avoid a negligence claim, they would need to prove the same, to know they are giving the money to the right person.

The usual method is one photo id (passport or driving licence), and one proof of address (bank statement or printed utility bill).
Of course, some people may have neither of these. In which case it is down to the organisation to decide how you prove it.

Gryff

For those without the usual ID proofs, alternatives include Benefits Agency (or from other govt dept inc HMRC) official correspondence, Council House rental tenancy agreement, credit card statement and the like.

Thank you

Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

Daytona wrote:Thank you

Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

None of which actually prove identity , though at least the marriage certificate can provide some 'proof' of a name change

chas49 wrote:

Daytona wrote:Thank you

Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

None of which actually prove identity , though at least the marriage certificate can provide some 'proof' of a name change

If there was a name change of course!

Mel

Daytona wrote:Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

Well if she's feeling a bit lazy, she could pay anybody else in the UK to procure that "evidence", perfectly legally, and supply it for her.

Scott.

melonfool wrote:

chas49 wrote:

Daytona wrote:Thank you

Because my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

None of which actually prove identity , though at least the marriage certificate can provide some 'proof' of a name change

If there was a name change of course!

Mel

Of course. "Mrs chas49" didn't change her name when we got hitched! I was assuming that Daytona's mother had done so - because otherwise there would be no point asking for the marriage cert.

chas49 wrote:

melonfool wrote:

chas49 wrote:
None of which actually prove identity , though at least the marriage certificate can provide some 'proof' of a name change

If there was a name change of course!

Mel

Of course. "Mrs chas49" didn't change her name when we got hitched! I was assuming that Daytona's mother had done so - because otherwise there would be no point asking for the marriage cert.

I can imagine being called Mrs Chas49 would be most undesirable! But the marriage cert could simply be as a result of how she became a beneficiary I suppose?

Mel

Daytona wrote:my mother hasn't got a driving licence or a valid passport she sent a bank statement, but now the solicitor wants a birth certificate, a marriage certificate and her NI number.

Yes, it is very difficult. For THEM as well as you. The law simply gives no clue to anyone how its terms are to be met. And it is becoming increasingly difficult, for everyone, as more and more stuff goes online.

In addition to things mentioned before. Pension and tax statements. Council issued documents can also be some use. Council tax statement shows residence. Disability passes and bus passes often have a photo. Not as good as the previous mentioned central govt documents, but still some use.

It's a pain, for everyone. But really, all the solicitors can do is ask for as much info as possible to show they have made their best efforts to comply.

Gryff

gryffron wrote:The law simply gives no clue to anyone how its terms are to be met.

I can't see any solicitor being sanctioned having met the standard government proof of name & proof of address requirements.

And it is becoming increasingly difficult, for everyone, as more and more stuff goes online.

So if a statement's printed by the company it's valid, but if it's printed by the customer it's not ?!

It's a pain, for everyone. But really, all the solicitors can do is ask for as much info as possible

That's not necessary given the limited ID required by the standard government requirements and it would also breach the Data Protection Act.

I'm wondering if a criminal records check would satisfy the requirement ?

Daytona wrote:

gryffron wrote:The law simply gives no clue to anyone how its terms are to be met.

I can't see any solicitor being sanctioned having met the standard government proof of name & proof of address requirements.

But the point is that there isn't a government standard. The law just says you have to do it. It gives no clue how you should go about it. Every company and govt dept has their own rules for how they interpret the law. Hence the need for law society guidelines as linked by the earlier poster. Yes, they're unlikely to be sanctioned if they follow good practice. But then what are they supposed to do with people who don't have the "standard" documents? Not unusual for the elderly.

So if a statement's printed by the company it's valid, but if it's printed by the customer it's not ?!

Banks and solicitors have always asked me for "original" printed bills as proof of ID. A few other organisations have accepted stuff I have printed at home. Though TBH, I don't see how they would know the difference. With the tech in my house it would take me 30s to produce documentary proof that I am the Queen of England, that would stand up to any of the scrutiny these organisations have put the documents to.
I entirely agree with your point. I can't see that either really helps them to "prove" anything. Since they are so easy to forge.

IMO this is a badly written law that is rapidly becoming counter productive. It is a pain for the legitimate, and negligible protection against the criminal
If they want it to work, sooner or later the govt will have to provide some nationally acceptable form of ID.

Gryff

Daytona wrote:I'm wondering if a criminal records check would satisfy the requirement ?

Do you mean a DBS certificate for your mother? She can apply through Disclosure Scotland (even if she doesn't live in Scotland), but she will still need to prove her identity to them. She would need to ensure the solicitor will accept this first anyway....

https://www.gov.uk/request-copy-criminal-record

gryffron wrote:
I entirely agree with your point. I can't see that either really helps them to "prove" anything. Since they are so easy to forge.

IMO this is a badly written law that is rapidly becoming counter productive. It is a pain for the legitimate, and negligible protection against the criminal
If they want it to work, sooner or later the govt will have to provide some nationally acceptable form of ID.

Gryff

... and the problem there is that Gryff's very valid points wrt forgeries and a pain for the legitimate is true of those IDs. True they won't be as easy (we presume!) to forge as "standard letters" etc - but those o0f a criminal nature will get false ID where they need it.

And such ID will have to be provided free or at incredibly negligible cost - otherwise there will be an underclass of people that don't have them because they cannot afford them, or a sub-class of "criminals" that are crimninalsied for not having them because they can;t afford them etc.

(Back we go to Blair...)

didds

Identifying people, whether clients or third parties, is the bane of solicitors’ lives. It’s become much more of a problem in recent years due to the ready availability of forged documents and the amazingly high quality of those forgeries. I’ve seen forged passports and driving licences that are completely indistinguishable from the real thing.

I think the time has come for the introduction of a national identity card. Although I don’t personally have any problem with making this compulsory I realise the political difficulties in achieving this, so I’d suggest that it could be introduced on a voluntary basis.

I would very happily pay a fee sufficient to make the exercise cost neutral (which I’d assume would be similar to a passport fee). In return I’d expect to be issued with some form of unique identifier - somewhat like a PIN number - that I could use to prove identity when required to do so. When a person was checking my ID the PIN number would also generate my photo so they could check that at the same time. It might even be possible to use such a system to replace passports.

And pigs might fly!

without meaning to derail the thread, let alone appear to be "dissing" CK, a "viluntary" system would end up with those that just accnot afford the costs of a ID card becoming a second class citizen as the ID card become the de facto and "only" accepted ID by not very well trained/informed staff etc, or by lazy organisations. We already read on TLF (and previously TMF) of people having all sorts of issues because they don;t own a passport or drive, despite the lists of acceptable ID being much more involved that just those two.

didds