What wine....

[Halicarnassus]

The two of you bickering at such length is tending towards, shall we say, tedious.

I thought that bickering was about arguing about trivial or petty matters? Given that this thread is not about life and death, I might concur, but it's not. It's about a bottle of wine which we both have different opinions on and which is directly related to the OP.

Cheers

[Clitheroekid]

[i]Well in my opinion it fits the bill. We won't agree, but have you actually tried my recommendation?

No I've not had that particular misfortune but admit to being given glasses of Yellow Tail Shiraz and Cab Sauvignon in the past. My point is that you can drink better quality wine without paying much more money. Yellow Tail is all about brand marketing to make it stand out in a supermarket shelf (even down to colour coding the different varietal bottles) with scant regard for what's actually in the bottle. If you like it great, but I'd never suggest it to someone suggesting they are prepared to pay for a decent bottle for a special occasion. Yellow tail is for getting pissed at BBQ's, nothing else.

Whilst I tend to share your prejudice against big brand wines - I can't see Byrne's stocking it! - I think you're being a bit unfair on Halicarnassus. He clearly enjoys the wine, and it seems that there are quite a few independent reviewers who consider it quite acceptable, for example:

http://www.nataliemaclean.com/wine-revi ... red/189096

http://philosophyofwinereview.blogspot. ... d-red.html

https://sippingsentiments.wordpress.com ... -out-of-5/

As you admit, you haven't tried it yourself, and you are therefore judging it on the basis of its background alone, which is hardly fair. The reviews make it fairly clear that It isn't as dreadful as you think, and on the basis of those reviews alone I think most people would probably quite enjoy it.

The two of you bickering at such length is tending towards, shall we say, tedious.

I really don't agree, either that your exchange of views is `bickering' or that it's tedious. I enjoyed seeing both sides of the argument, and I have to say that I think Halicarnassus was quite right to stand up for and defend his choice. The whole point of drinking wine is to derive enjoyment, and as he clearly does enjoy drinking this particular wine that has to be a good thing. It's also an enjoyment that appears to be shared by many other people.

I've never drunk it myself, having also been put off by the branding etc, but maybe you and I should try it as part of a blind tasting - we might be pleasantly surprised!

[simoan]

Whilst I tend to share your prejudice against big brand wines - I can't see Byrne's stocking it! - I think you're being a bit unfair on Halicarnassus. He clearly enjoys the wine, and it seems that there are quite a few independent reviewers who consider it quite acceptable, for example:

http://www.nataliemaclean.com/wine-revi ... red/189096

http://philosophyofwinereview.blogspot. ... d-red.html

https://sippingsentiments.wordpress.com ... -out-of-5/

Actually I'm not prejudiced against big brands at all and some of them make very good wine at reasonable price points. Even being a very large concern does not matter; some of the largest wine co-ops in Europe make some great entry level wine e.g. Araldica. I have no doubt these reviewers were impartial although they have no provenance to me, who are they? To my knowledge yellow tail "big bold red" has never won any of the industry awards, IWC etc. which are the best sign of the quality when up against it's peers.

I'm not sure I was being that unfair. The original post was asking for something quite specific and unless you dislike a traditional Xmas dinner and the cheese course so much that you want to obliterate the taste of it, I can't see how a jammy alcoholic "big, bold red" will fit the bill. It's like being asked to advise on the best meal for a special occasion and suggesting turkey twizzlers, oven chips and baked beans.

As you admit, you haven't tried it yourself, and you are therefore judging it on the basis of its background alone, which is hardly fair. The reviews make it fairly clear that It isn't as dreadful as you think, and on the basis of those reviews alone I think most people would probably quite enjoy it.

I was actually basing it on the other yellow tail wines I have tried. If you like jammy fruit and lots of alcohol it should be right up your street. If you want to be able to tell what grape variety is in the bottle then it's virtually impossible to tell the Shiraz from the Cab Sauv - it all tastes the same. This wine has no sense of purpose, it does not vary between vintages and to make matters worse it is labelled "Wine of Australia" which means the grapes can be sourced from any damned place within the 7th largest country in the world. Who needs terroir!! I have no doubt many people enjoy it but then people enjoy all sorts of other bizarre practices that I don't understand.

I've never drunk it myself, having also been put off by the branding etc, but maybe you and I should try it as part of a blind tasting - we might be pleasantly surprised!

I'm afraid you're on your own . if you have a sweet tooth and don't like tannin you'll probably enjoy it. If I was intent on getting smashed at a BBQ I wasn't enjoying, I'd drink it too!

All the best, Si

[Halicarnassus]

I'm not sure I was being that unfair.

Fairness aside, I think you have missed the obvious.

The OP said

I like spicy and full red wines, nothing too light.

And I said "Big Bold Red."

Simples.

[simoan]

I'm not sure I was being that unfair.

Fairness aside, I think you have missed the obvious.

The OP said

I like spicy and full red wines, nothing too light.

And I said "Big Bold Red."

Simples.

Yes, but you conveniently missed that they mentioned Rioja and Burgundy as styles they enjoy and were prepared to spend £20. Instead you suggested a wine that has no vintage, has never seen any oak, and which is made from unknown grape varieties that could have come from anywhere in Australia. Great choice!

Si

[Halicarnassus]

Yes, but you conveniently missed that they mentioned Rioja and Burgundy as styles they enjoy and were prepared to spend £20. Instead you suggested a wine that has no vintage, has never seen any oak, and which is made from unknown grape varieties that could have come from anywhere in Australia. Great choice!

Si

They mentioned Rioja and Burgundy but they were not conditionals. Many wines fall into the full bodied spicy category.

[simoan]

They mentioned Rioja and Burgundy but they were not conditionals. Many wines fall into the full bodied spicy category.

Yes, and just about all of them are better choices than Yellow Tail!

[Halicarnassus]

They mentioned Rioja and Burgundy but they were not conditionals. Many wines fall into the full bodied spicy category.

Yes, and just about all of them are better choices than Yellow Tail!

I think I've sussed you out. You are the competition arent you?

[simoan]

I think I've sussed you out. You are the competition arent you?

Competition to what? I have no interest in the race to the bottom in the wine world, quite the opposite.

Most yellow tail wines are £5.75 in Tesco at the moment, that means after bottling and transport costs, marketing, and then UK tax on top the cost of the wine in the bottle is only £1-2. If you just spent another two quid on something better the wine now costs £3-4 and all of a sudden you might find something worth drinking. I think a lot of people forget this. So when someone says they are prepared to pay £20, don't skimp.

Si

[Halicarnassus]

I think I've sussed you out. You are the competition arent you?

Competition to what? I have no interest in the race to the bottom in the wine world, quite the opposite.

Most yellow tail wines are £5.75 in Tesco at the moment, that means after bottling and transport costs, marketing, and then UK tax on top the cost of the wine in the bottle is only £1-2. If you just spent another two quid on something better the wine now costs £3-4 and all of a sudden you might find something worth drinking. I think a lot of people forget this. So when someone says they are prepared to pay £20, don't skimp.

Si

What does skimp mean? Is their any real and discernible quality difference in the £5-20 range? http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/asda-wine ... ld-8150104

And the OP said up to £20 not recommend a £20 bottle .

Le bon Dieu est dans le détail

[DiamondEcho]

What does skimp mean? Is their any real and discernible quality difference in the £5-20 range? http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/asda-wine ... ld-8150104

Interesting article, and a reflection on human nature when it instantly sold out
But perhaps this wine is an exception. Does the fact it's a budget wine but has won high acclaim reveal, in a QED sense, that quality at that price is so unexpected as to be worthy of headlines when found? You can be sure the price will be rising steeply in future IMO.
In most countries I lived there is a discernible pattern of pricing vs quality. In the UK with high fixed-costs, esp. production, bottling, freight, duty and profit margin, the baseline cost of a bottle of 'table wine' used to be about £5 - that's when I last lived in England. The 'value' of the wine in that might be something like £1. At about £8, many fixed costs would be the same as the cheaper wine, so the wine should be say over twice as good than a baseline palatable. Go up the scale and the quality vs cost supposedly rises exponentially; spend £15-20 and the quality is incomparable.

This has also been my experience in other countries. In Germany fixed costs are much lower. Even wine at Euro5 as bottle is palatable, like a pretty good table-wine. Spend 10 and you're without question in completely another league re: quality. Euro20 and it's going to be something I'd consider superb.

Go back the other way, buy wine in Singapore. Massive fixed costs and taxes. Anything under about S$25 [say £12] is going to be like a £4 wine in the UK. And that's the baseline.

[These are all retail, in a restaurant you'd be looking at perhaps triple the costs, 'of course'].

[Clitheroekid]

Does the fact it's a budget wine but has won high acclaim reveal, in a QED sense, that quality at that price is so unexpected as to be worthy of headlines when found?

Not if it was a genuinely blind tasting, as the judges wouldn't have known its price when they selected it as a winner.

[Itsallaguess]

What does skimp mean? Is their any real and discernible quality difference in the £5-20 range? http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/asda-wine ... ld-8150104

Speaking of Malbec, I've got a couple of bottles of Trivento Reserve to give my full attention over the next couple of evenings.

Currently £6.29 a bottle from Iceland, although other lowest-common denominator outlets are available... - https://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/ocado-c ... 750ml.html

Clearly not for everyone on this thread, given what sounds like some much more sophisticated palettes than mine, but I think it's a fantastic, full-bodied red that's consistently received very positive comments whenever I've taken a bottle on visits, but perhaps I just mix with the wrong crowd...

Might be worth a go if anyone fancies roughing-it for an evening....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[DiamondEcho]

Does the fact it's a budget wine but has won high acclaim reveal, in a QED sense, that quality at that price is so unexpected as to be worthy of headlines when found?

Not if it was a genuinely blind tasting, as the judges wouldn't have known its price when they selected it as a winner.

I mean it a different sense. If you produced a wine it takes many years and hard work to yield a quality product. You wouldn't enter a prestigious international wine competition unless you firmly believed you had one. For example you might have already won local and national wine awards. But if that were the case, and given the human 'profit motive', you wouldn't then be exporting it all the way to the UK for it to be sold at 'table-wine prices'. Only for it to be later found, as if almost by accident, to be a prestigious product.
I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but something doesn't add up IMHO.

[BrummieDave]

Discussing the validity and provenance of a wine article that appeared where - the Daily Mirror! LOL

As posted previously I'm sure, the have a deep passionate dislike for Malbec. Awards or not, I never ever drink it.

[simoan]

Is their any real and discernible quality difference in the £5-20 range? http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/asda-wine ... ld-8150104
Le bon Dieu est dans le détail

That depends doesn't it? and mostly on your palate. If you just like big Aussie fruit bombs it's not worth paying £20, stick to £6 Yellowtail. Besides, I never said there are no good wines sub £6 -there will always be a few outliers like this Chilean Malbec - and I often buy £6 wines but never from supermarkets (Byrnes of Clitheroe sell a cracking Nero D'Avola).

The irony is that if the Decanter tasters liked the Malbec, it's highly likely that those who normally buy sub £6 red wines will not! because it will not be an alcoholic fruit bomb and will probably be more medium bodied. Their website shows it as 12.5% which is low for a red wine so it will possibly not have much length either. Of course, the other irony is that those going to Asda to buy it now will be buying a completely different wine! Whose to say the 2016 vintage will be anything like as good?

In fact the Decanter website has a huge disclaimer:

UPDATE FROM DECANTER: the sample tasted at the DWWA was from the lot number L15308U available to buy at Asda stores between 27th of Feb to the 4th of June 2016. This wine was shipped from Chile at the end of September and bottled in November 2015. 31,794 bottles were produced. Further shipment from the same original batch of wine were shipped and bottled under lot numbers L15308E, L15321D, L15352B, L15365C, L16054E, and L16055C between October 2015 and Feb 2016 - each LOT number producing approx. 31,800 bottles, all of which were available for sale up to the end of June 2016. The remaining wine from the original batch was stored in Chile until June 2016 and was shipped to the UK to be bottle as lot numbers L16202B, L16202A, L16209B, and L16209C at the end of July 2016. These lot numbers were available to purchase at Asda stores from the very end of July – through to beginning of October. This stock has now sold out. The wine available in ASDA today is no longer the Award Winning wine from the original award winning batch. All wine from the original award winning batch were shipped by standard dry container with flexi bag and bottled in UK. Wine from lot numbers L15308U and L16209C were analysed by an independent laboratory that is ISO 9001 certified. These analyses identified some differences between the lots. Wines can change during storage and shipping, in some cases prematurely ageing, which probably accounts for these differences seen between the 2 samples tested. UPDATED TASTING NOTE FROM DECANTER (tasted from batch L1620 9U – currently on sale) The sample currently selling is a correct wine but not a Gold winner and certainly not worthy of Platinum. Slightly baked on the nose and a lack of freshness. This sample is definitely not as fresh and floral as the sample tasted at the DWWA. While the palate is juicy and lifted, it is not as exciting as the DWWA sample and it has lost some of the vibrancy and floral tones you expect to see in a young Malbec at this price level. ORIGINAL TASTING NOTE (tasted from batch L 1530 8U – no longer available) Exciting nose of freshly crushed black fruit, creamy vanilla yoghurt and pepper spice. Succulent juicy berries on the palate supported by soft, well-managed tannins and an excellent freshness. Beautifully executed, full of energy with a great price point, an absolute crowd pleaser.

Si

[simoan]

Clearly not for everyone on this thread, given what sounds like some much more sophisticated palettes than mine, but I think it's a fantastic, full-bodied red that's consistently received very positive comments whenever I've taken a bottle on visits, but perhaps I just mix with the wrong crowd...

iag,

If you don't mind me asking, why do you feel this way? If you enjoy the wine that is all that matters!

I always find it really strange how intimidated people feel when others are interested in wine, and they feel like they know nothing about it. It doesn't seem to happen with anything else in life in the same way it does with wine and this whole ingrained and very British idea of wine snobbery - no other country I know of is like this. I often have to confront friends about it because they are so nice they are terrified of bringing wine to our house because they know my other half has a WSET Diploma, several of her friends are Master of Wine students, and I'm very interested in it too (so much so that all my holidays are spent in wine regions!) but we're the absolute antithesis of wine snobs. People forget there is a great social aspect to sharing a bottle of wine and that's much more important than what's inside the bottle.

Enjoy your Malbec!

All the best
Si

[Itsallaguess]

Clearly not for everyone on this thread, given what sounds like some much more sophisticated palettes than mine, but I think it's a fantastic, full-bodied red that's consistently received very positive comments whenever I've taken a bottle on visits, but perhaps I just mix with the wrong crowd...

iag,

If you don't mind me asking, why do you feel this way? If you enjoy the wine that is all that matters!

But that's not the response you gave to the earlier Yellowtail post... -

"Wouldn't even give this to my In-laws"

"I'd rather drink my own urine"

I think you're right about wine-discussions leading to intimidation sometimes, and it shouldn't really be any surprise when the above are examples of the sort of response people with perhaps little 'top-end' experience might get, and yet others may still be told that "If you enjoy the wine that is all that matters!".

It's all very confusing....perhaps something gets lost in translation somewhere!

Enjoy your Malbec!

Thanks, I will!

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[UncleEbenezer]

Hmmm. That was a Chilean malbec I enjoyed last night. Not perhaps quite as gorgeous as a good Rioja, but a jolly nice tipple nevertheless.

[simoan]

But that's not the response you gave to the earlier Yellowtail post... -

"Wouldn't even give this to my In-laws"

"I'd rather drink my own urine"

I think you're right about wine-discussions leading to intimidation sometimes, and it shouldn't really be any surprise when the above are examples of the sort of response people with perhaps little 'top-end' experience might get, and yet others may still be told that "If you enjoy the wine that is all that matters!".

It's all very confusing....perhaps something gets lost in translation somewhere!

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I'm not sure where the confusion arises? If someone enjoys drinking yellow tail, then that's great, I have absolutely no problem with that. However, if they suggest it as a good option for someone that wants a wine that meets the spec in the original post at the top of this thread, then they clearly don't understand food and wine matching. The internet is full of people giving opinions on subjects they obviously know very little about and I confess that it winds me up and I sometimes overreact. Drink and enjoy whatever you like but it's important to recognise where you have a lack of knowledge, particularly when offering advice to strangers.

All the best, Si