What is your personal 'King of beers'?

[Hallucigenia]

Some Belgian beers have BB dates of +20 years, and some certainly benefit from 5 years cellaring. However I've recently had two New England IPAs which were probably only 6 weeks old, and were already oxidised despite a 6-month BB date - NEIPA is notorious for needing to be drunk fresh.

I'm all in favour of enforcing BB dates on wine, I've picked up some great ones at 50% off in supermarkets that still needed several years in cellar...

[redsturgeon]

I quite pleased about the use of Best Before dates on beer, Mrs RS was buying a bottle of wine from out local independent wine merchants today and happened to see some bottles of my favourite Red Cat, Tom Cat APA on sale at £2.00 a 500ml bottle reduced from £2.99. The Best Before date is Oct 19th. She bought 2 bottles but was told that they will be reduced to £1.50 on Weds, if there are any left. I will be popping in on Weds.

John

[JMN2]

... However I've recently had two New England IPAs which were probably only 6 weeks old, and were already oxidised despite a 6-month BB date - NEIPA is notorious for needing to be drunk fresh.

...

Fresh preferably yes because of the freshness of hops, nothing to do with that NEIPAs would oxidise any quicker than other styles which of course they don't.

I have two bottles of Thomas Hardy ales from the early 80's, bought from Redhill beerfest few years ago ("not fit for human consumption"), probably oxidised but there is a slight chance of port-like nectar...(I doubt it though).

[DiamondEcho]

Some Belgian beers have BB dates of +20 years, and some certainly benefit from 5 years cellaring. However I've recently had two New England IPAs which were probably only 6 weeks old, and were already oxidised despite a 6-month BB date - NEIPA is notorious for needing to be drunk fresh. I'm all in favour of enforcing BB dates on wine, I've picked up some great ones at 50% off in supermarkets that still needed several years in cellar...

Is that ones you've purchased over there, or back in the UK? I ask as I've enjoyed my fill of Belgic beers (both in Belgium, UK and elsewhere abroad) and I have never seen any beer with more than say a 2-year expiry. So if I saw anything like 5 years, never mind 20+, it would make a lasting impression on me. I've drunk some 'hard-core' beers like some from the German Progusta brewery, and English Barley Wines and IDR 2/+ years. Curious.

'Date of minimum durability or ‘use by’ date; beverages of 10% ABV or higher are exempt from the last'
http://www.iard.org/policy-tables/bever ... pean-union

and

...'Article 24
Minimum durability date, ‘use by’ date and date of freezing
1. In the case of foods which, from a microbiological point of view, are highly perishable and are therefore likely after a short period to constitute an immediate danger to human health, the date of minimum durability shall be replaced by the ‘use by’ date. After the ‘use by’ date a food shall be deemed to be unsafe in accordance with Article 14(2) to (5) of Regulation (EC) No 178/2002.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 32011R1169

I checked the quoted Article14 but I can see nothing specific. The different usage of Best-before/Use-by is interesting for me, I don't think I'd considered that before, on beer, and other F+B.

I've Googled again, waded through acres of EU verbiage but still can't find 'THE rule' for beer, unless it's entirely discretionary which the EU being what it is I rather doubt...

[Hallucigenia]

Is that ones you've purchased over there, or back in the UK? I ask as I've enjoyed my fill of Belgic beers (both in Belgium, UK and elsewhere abroad) and I have never seen any beer with more than say a 2-year expiry. So if I saw anything like 5 years, never mind 20+, it would make a lasting impression on me. I've drunk some 'hard-core' beers like some from the German Progusta brewery, and English Barley Wines and IDR 2/+ years. Curious.

Certainly on ones bought in Belgium, and I'm 99% certain I've seen it on bottle-shop shelves here. The only ones I've got to hand are Bernardus Abt (~4 y) and Rochefort 10 (~5 years from purchase) but I've definitely seen several in the 2030s. Maybe the likes of Delirium and Struise? I'm separated at the mo from most of my Belgian bottles, I'll have a rummage next time we coincide.

On oxidation - the loss of hop flavour happens through oxidation.... But I've also seen some mechanism postulated by which certain hop components interact with the malt in an unhelpful way, can't remember the details though.

[DiamondEcho]

Certainly on ones bought in Belgium, and I'm 99% certain I've seen it on bottle-shop shelves here. The only ones I've got to hand are Bernardus Abt (~4 y) and Rochefort 10 (~5 years from purchase) but I've definitely seen several in the 2030s.

Interesting, and look forward to seeing/feedback what you find. I know both of these beers [woof!], so would be interested I've drunk them in other countries where they couldn't legally have beyond 2-year shelf lives, as ironic as that might be.

[redsturgeon]

Certainly on ones bought in Belgium, and I'm 99% certain I've seen it on bottle-shop shelves here. The only ones I've got to hand are Bernardus Abt (~4 y) and Rochefort 10 (~5 years from purchase) but I've definitely seen several in the 2030s.

Interesting, and look forward to seeing/feedback what you find. I know both of these beers [woof!], so would be interested I've drunk them in other countries where they couldn't legally have beyond 2-year shelf lives, as ironic as that might be.

I have been to the Kulminator Bar in Antwerp, where they specialise in aged beers with some going back to the 70s.

https://belgiuminabox.com/blog/2011/02/ ... eWoHxNSzow

It is interesting to taste the same beer at different ages and see the difference, some beers definitely improve with age.

My favourite Westvleterens 8 and 12 definitely keep for a year...although any longer is beyond my personal capability for delayed gratification.

I currently have a few bottles of Caribbean Chocolate Cake from Siren that has BB date of 12/2016. I was saving it for this Xmas and I will let you know if it is still good.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/31221/118857/

That having been said, I have to say my favourite beer has been the several (too many) Westvleteren 8s that I drank with my buddy at the Abbey of St Sixtus which I guess is as fresh as it comes with no age at all.

John

[Hallucigenia]

Certainly on ones bought in Belgium, and I'm 99% certain I've seen it on bottle-shop shelves here. The only ones I've got to hand are Bernardus Abt (~4 y) and Rochefort 10 (~5 years from purchase) but I've definitely seen several in the 2030s.

Interesting, and look forward to seeing/feedback what you find.

Here's two examples, Boon Geuze (2035) and a less good pic of Bateman's Vintage (2037)

[redsturgeon]

Certainly on ones bought in Belgium, and I'm 99% certain I've seen it on bottle-shop shelves here. The only ones I've got to hand are Bernardus Abt (~4 y) and Rochefort 10 (~5 years from purchase) but I've definitely seen several in the 2030s.

Interesting, and look forward to seeing/feedback what you find.

Here's two examples, Boon Geuze (2035) and a less good pic of Bateman's Vintage (2037)

Here's the top of an old bottle of Westie 12 that is probably about three years old...so a 5 year date.

John



upload picture

[stewamax]

In my home-brewing days I lived just outside Burton-on-Trent and brewed with sacks of malted barley that were ‘available’ in Burton. I once made a very strong Xmas Ale from a top-grade malt, Goldings hops and nothing else apart from a series of yeasts culminating in a wine yeast. For the first twelve months in gallon demijohns it was rough. After two years it was something different altogether: almost black, with a smell of new leather (think posh car) and Xmas cake. It was bottled only lightly filtered and without any added sugar to make it fizz. After a tumbler or two of this a friend – obviously hoping for more – said “I’d be a bit p***ed if I drank that demijohn.” and my reply “You’d probably be dead”.
I would like to have tried ageing it in a small ex-sherry barrel but "small" to Bass and Marstons was still too big for my domestic brewery.

So a ‘best before’ in years rather than months for strong unpasteurised beer sounds good to me.