What is your personal 'King of beers'?

[AleisterCrowley]

Young's still brewed at Charles Wells? There was some business deal with Marston's earlier this year IIRC

[stewamax]

The draught White Shield I had in the Bass sample room in Burton (courtesy of production director Arthur Seddon - thank you Arthur) in 1975. Very heavily dry hopped and with characteristic 'spirity' taste that the then head brewer Tony Portno said came from the movement of the fermenting beer around the Burton Union sets.
At that time, as far as I know, it was never sold to the trade on draught and there wasn't much of it (and its brother Bass Red Triangle) about in bottle anyway.

The present (bottled) White Shield is a different drink altogether with a cloying sugary taste - presumably lots of crystal malt.

Of today's beers, I plump for Oakham Ales' Citra or the stronger version Green Devil IPA.

[Clitheroekid]

I don't really consider myself a connoisseur of beer. I do enjoy cask beer, but I hardly ever drink bottled beer and I avoid canned beer like the plague - it tastes horribly metallic to me.

But although it's not one of the fashionable beers I would still say that Timothy Taylor's Landlord would be a beer I'd be happy to drink for the rest of my natural.

I was a little disappointed to see that it didn't make it into the top 50 as rated on ratebeer - https://www.ratebeer.com/top/all/england But when I looked at the list I noticed two things. Firstly, I'd never heard of any of the brewers except Fuller's - and secondly that they were all a high to very high ABV.

I assume they are mostly, if not all bottled beers, which is why I've never seen them on sale, but I'd normally be put off by such a high ABV. The only times I've tried beers getting anywhere near these figures - Theakston's Old Peculier and Lees Moonraker are two I recall - I found them quite unpleasant, more like barley wine than beer, and way too strong for the sort of beer drinking I enjoy.

Drinking a bottle of one of the beers on the list would in many cases be equivalent to drinking the same quantity of wine, which does rather limit the intake!

[DiamondEcho]

I don't really consider myself a connoisseur of beer. I do enjoy cask beer, but I hardly ever drink bottled beer and I avoid canned beer like the plague - it tastes horribly metallic to me.

I think canned beers tasting 'tinny' ('aluminy'?) is more to do with what beers brewers consider merit budget packaging than the latter imparting it's own flavour. Draft beer can be good if it's properly handled from kegging to the glass in your hand, so 'do you feel lucky?'. At least with bottled beer you can be pretty sure it'll be a decent quality beer, and one not compromised by poor keg-room procedures at the pub.

I was a little disappointed to see that it didn't make it into the top 50 as rated on ratebeer - https://www.ratebeer.com/top/all/england But when I looked at the list I noticed two things. Firstly, I'd never heard of any of the brewers except Fuller's - and secondly that they were all a high to very high ABV.

That's a curious list! Of the 50 beers 46* are either stouts or IPAs! One is a porter, one a trad ale, another a sour ale, and one a blonde ale. How did that happen?
Of the list apart from Fullers there is one other I know for sure that I've had and that's Thornbridge, who do some very interesting beers IME.
And you're right to note the high ABVs; the lowest out of 50 is 5.2%! Maybe it's just that higher ABV tends to have more impact? Also, they tend to cost more too and there might be a tendency for consumers to have invested in believing that they must be better in a 'reassuringly expensive' way, and thus finding them as such. (Reminds me of the Progusta brewery's beers in Germany. Cheapest from a beer shop is something like E7-10 for a 330ml bottle, up to E25-30 for a 750ml of others. And they are beautifully packaged, and come with an expensively produced glossy booklet giving you the whole 'story' behind each beer. It'd be hard to buy one of them and not believe it's something really special eh?)


*23 of which are stouts! Since when did stout become so popular and highly respected in England?

[JMN2]

Ratebeer is very USA-centric and geeky in general, has always been and the top50 list has always been like that although oak barrel aged vanilla pod super duper coffee sour ales are probably going to be the fad soon!

[DiamondEcho]

Ratebeer is very USA-centric and geeky in general, has always been and the top50 list has always been like that although oak barrel aged vanilla pod super duper coffee sour ales are probably going to be the fad soon!

Ohhh hehehe I see, thanks for reminding me of that, I think that observation has come up previously but I'd forgotten. It is why I rely more on beeradvocate.com rather than ratebeer. The former seems far more international both in it's beer listings, but also in the geographic range of it's reviewers. When I go on holiday abroad I enjoy trying/rating beers I find in that country. I don't only get to sample foreign beers exported into the UK. And seeing as apparently most Americans don't have passports, it would make sense if they are more restricted to sampling high-margin exotica whose price covers the import costs, with parallel higher expectations/hopes of it being good.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/top/
Mind you only 8 of their global top-50 list are other than IPA or stout. There also seems to be a correlation between rating and high-ABV% too.

[tea42]

Loddon Brewery Hoppit. About 3.5%. A nice light bitter brewed by Brakspears ex head brewer at his Dunsden Green micro brewery.

[DiamondEcho]

Loddon Brewery Hoppit. About 3.5%. A nice light bitter brewed by Brakspears ex head brewer at his Dunsden Green micro brewery.

'''But it's only 3.5% that's almost shandy. I bet it's cheap compared to those 8%+ beers so how could it be any good?''' blah blah blah...
I'm sure there is a psychology to perception of 'quality' in a beer, above and beyond it's actual merits. Same with wine, spirits etc of course.

Price, ABV%, history/pedigree, the brewery having some engaging 'back story', fancy labelling/marketing, some Unique Selling Point [Guinness and it's fake head etc etc]. Only one of those has a tangential connection to the baseline tasting metrics of: Looks, Smell, Taste, Mouthfeel => Overall%

[tea42]

One of my reasons for liking a 3.5% bitter is that its possible to drink much more of it without getting stoned. When I go to a pub in an unfamiliar place with unfamiliar beers I always choose the one with the lowest alcohol content. I dislike so called lagers at 5%. Loddon breweries secret is producing a beer like Hoppit with a low alcohol content that tastes as good as beers with much higher alcohol content. That said they dont use the double drop brewing method that proper Brakspears used to use at the sadly missed Henley Brewery. We always have a barrel of Hoppit in the house at Christmas.

[Clitheroekid]

https://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/top/
Mind you only 8 of their global top-50 list are other than IPA or stout. There also seems to be a correlation between rating and high-ABV% too.

And their UK list contains similar beers to those in the the ratebeer list - https://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/uk/

There seems to be a quite bizarre predilection for stout and porter, but I don't know anyone who drinks such beers (apart from the odd Guinness drinker, who presumably wouldn't qualify anyway!)

Still, each to his own. I've concluded that the people who read and contribute to these websites are a completely different species to those of us who simply enjoy a good pint of cask ale.

And if the ABV's are anything to go by they're also borderline alcoholics! I really can't see the pleasure of drinking beer with an ABV of 11%. Whilst I'm by no means a volume drinker I would certainly look forward to having at least 3 or 4 pints in the course of an evening in the pub, but I'd be unconscious after just a couple of pints of that.

I can only assume that the people who drink it do so whilst sitting in their hipster Shoreditch apartments, taking a sip at a time and rolling each mouthful thoughtfully before making tasting notes on their iPads. Perhaps they even spit it out!

[AleisterCrowley]

Loddon Brewery Hoppit. About 3.5%. A nice light bitter brewed by Brakspears ex head brewer at his Dunsden Green micro brewery.

They do some good stuff - had a fair amount as I drink in Reading regularly. They are just north of Reading, and a mere 4 miles (?) west of Binghams Brewery who do a very nice stout.

[DiamondEcho]

There seems to be a quite bizarre predilection for stout and porter, but I don't know anyone who drinks such beers (apart from the odd Guinness drinker, who presumably wouldn't qualify anyway!)
Still, each to his own. I've concluded that the people who read and contribute to these websites are a completely different species to those of us who simply enjoy a good pint of cask ale.
And if the ABV's are anything to go by they're also borderline alcoholics! I really can't see the pleasure of drinking beer with an ABV of 11%. Whilst I'm by no means a volume drinker I would certainly look forward to having at least 3 or 4 pints in the course of an evening in the pub, but I'd be unconscious after just a couple of pints of that.
I can only assume that the people who drink it do so whilst sitting in their hipster Shoreditch apartments, taking a sip at a time and rolling each mouthful thoughtfully before making tasting notes on their iPads. Perhaps they even spit it out!

Isn't it just. Don't drink it myself and don't know anyone currently who would. Perhaps it's one of those hipster US things, and since they're on US sites, and kids who know nothing... [etc/blah-blah*1000 ].
I don't tend to expect to find pleasure in anything over say 7.5%. The likes of say solid Belgic monastic brews. Forays north will be rare one offs, just to see what it's about, and then only if it's something notable amongst the more informed rather than a gimmick.
Same way I feel about Duvel. Have one on it's own and it's perhaps an admirable beer. But you won't be necking much more of it...

Lol at your last para hehe.... those Tarquins are perhaps quite used to spitting it out...

[Hallucigenia]

I don't really consider myself a connoisseur of beer. I do enjoy cask beer, but I hardly ever drink bottled beer and I avoid canned beer like the plague - it tastes horribly metallic to me.

But although it's not one of the fashionable beers I would still say that Timothy Taylor's Landlord would be a beer I'd be happy to drink for the rest of my natural.

I was a little disappointed to see that it didn't make it into the top 50 as rated on ratebeer - https://www.ratebeer.com/top/all/england But when I looked at the list I noticed two things. Firstly, I'd never heard of any of the brewers except Fuller's - and secondly that they were all a high to very high ABV...

Drinking a bottle of one of the beers on the list would in many cases be equivalent to drinking the same quantity of wine, which does rather limit the intake!

With respect, that's a rather old-fashioned view of cans. Modern coatings have vastly improved cans, the reason so many breweries are now turning to them is not our of fashion but because there are good technical reasons why modern cans will deliver a better-tasting beer to the customer than a bottle.

Given that Landlord is the most expensive "trad" beer at wholesale, and TT trot out a survey which says it's the beer most cited as someone's favourite, I'd say the market is saying it's pretty fashionable... Personally I'm not sure it's even my favourite beer made by TT, it can be great when on form but it's certainly one of the beers most likely to be served green in pubs, as it needs much longer conditioning than most.

I really don't see what the problem is with high ABV beers - even "weak" wine is 11% and nobody has a problem with that, they just don't try to drink shiraz by the pint (well - normally....) I'm quite a fan of a 2/3 of a 5.5-6% beer - less alcohol than a pint of 4% and less pressure on the bladder.

As for the ratebeer listings - well if you haven't heard of the likes of Cloudwater, Buxton, Magic Rock and Thornbridge then that's your loss, you're missing out on some great beer (and all of those have national distribution, some even in supermarkets). Some of it may not be to your personal taste, but it's still great beer.

It's a fairly universal thing that barrel-aged stouts tend to dominate the "best of" lists. Sure, fashion and cultishness play their part - but they will always have more depth and complexity than helles lager, in the same way that red burgundy has much more scope than pinot grigio. I've only had a handful of the beers on that list, but they are really good - and probably are "somewhat" better than the average pint of Landlord. Fashion maybe adds a few points, but I wouldn't argue too hard on the basis of the "top 50" ones I have had. You can also cut Ratebeer by style - here's the bitters (with Landlord straddled by two Salopians), goldens and "premium bitters"/ESBs

[langley59]

Fullers Vintage Ale. They make a vintage each year and it matures in the bottle like wine. I bought a case of assorted vintages a couple of years ago and one Christmas Eve conducted a vertical tasting of three vintages in reverse chronological order, the final one being a 2006 (so 8 or 9 years old at the time of drinking). Each vintage was distinctive and thoroughly enjoyable.

I have to say though that the prices seem to have have rocketed since I made my purchase so I probably won't be repeating it.

https://shop.fullers.co.uk/collections/vintage-ale

[DiamondEcho]

Heavens, the price, £6 to £550 per bottle! The latter being the 1997 vintage. Which had me thinking about best-before dates...

[langley59]

Heavens, the price, £6 to £550 per bottle! The latter being the 1997 vintage. Which had me thinking about best-before dates...

I believe that Fullers are legally bound to publish a best before date on the bottle but they do state that the beer continues to mature and is fine to drink after that date. I found this to be the case.

Regarding the prices the case I bought of 12 bottles covering 3 different vintages (4 of each) was nowhere near as expensive as current prices. I've just checked back through my bank account spreadsheet and I paid £57.95 in December 2013.

[DiamondEcho]

I believe that Fullers are legally bound to publish a best before date on the bottle but they do state that the beer continues to mature and is fine to drink after that date. I found this to be the case.
Regarding the prices the case I bought of 12 bottles covering 3 different vintages (4 of each) was nowhere near as expensive as current prices. I've just checked back through my bank account spreadsheet and I paid £57.95 in December 2013.

Yes, it is just another example of the illogic of some best before dates. Like a 2-year expiry on water. Ditto on Roman Catholic 'Host', the rice-paper disc you swallow with a dose of wine. Like 'Christ's body' has an expiry date

[PinkDalek]

Yes, it is just another example of the illogic of some best before dates. Like a 2-year expiry on water. ...

I might be wrong but the best before dates on plastic bottles of water may be in respect of the bottle, rather than the fluid itself.

Looking further, some say that water goes off. I've no idea as I rarely drink the stuff, except when mixed.

[DiamondEcho]

I might be wrong but the best before dates on plastic bottles of water may be in respect of the bottle, rather than the fluid itself.
Looking further, some say that water goes off. I've no idea as I rarely drink the stuff, except when mixed.

Regarding water, AIUI it doesn't relate to a plastic bottle, it's irrespective of the material. So you can buy a feted/$$$ wine produced in the 1950s, but water of the same age, in the same bottle with the same closure is very long 'expired'. I can't find any logic in that.

Since most bottled beer [sub 9-10% roughly/IIRC] legally has to carry a 'best-before' date, I'm curious what that is on these vintage beers, as it legally can't be more than the blanket maximum for F+B which AIUI is two years. I do agree plenty of beers do not benefit from prolonged ageing. Perhaps in such cases the brewery has discretion to indicate a reduced shelf-life, in the interests of the customer's enjoyment - IDK whether that is possible either...

- I tried to find a list of required expiry dates per food/drink-stuff but was not able to.

[JMN2]

...

- I tried to find a list of required expiry dates per food/drink-stuff but was not able to.

IIRC, for beer, the brewery registers as a food business then one day an officer from the council tradings standards dept visits and checks all the labels on bottles/casks and explains how they want the formatting for dates to be. This may differ between councils, and apparently some large breweries may even have practises in their labelling going back years which are illegal.

For instance, West Sussex, the format should be BBE April 2018 or Best Before 15/4/2018 (actual date) but you can't have BBE 15/4/2018.

I think they want to see also the date when product was packaged. For cask ale BBE there are no rules, some breweries give two or three months and longer for stronger beers. This is left for the brewery to decide.

Sometimes a brewery might later change the date if the beer was keeping well, or, if it was not selling and BBE was approaching.