Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Strong IPA

your favourite tipple - wine, beer, spirits
bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8064
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Strong IPA

#83972

Postby bungeejumper » September 27th, 2017, 4:14 pm

So there I was, down in Fuggles country with the wife, and all I wanted was a lowish-alcohol (single) pint to go with dinner that would leave me in a fit state for the road back to the B&B. Oh yes, says the waiter, unfortunately we don't have any IPAs at the bar but we've got a bottled one that you might like to try?

Shepherd Neame India Pale Ale, it turned out to be. Very dark colour, and it might as well have been barley wine, it was so sweet. And 6.1% alcohol! It's not every day I leave half a bottle of beer on the table. I must be getting old, or responsible, or something. :(

BJ

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2618
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 1718 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85275

Postby Hallucigenia » October 3rd, 2017, 12:32 am

bungeejumper wrote:all I wanted was a lowish-alcohol (single) pint to go with dinner that would leave me in a fit state for the road back to the B&B. Oh yes, says the waiter, unfortunately we don't have any IPAs at the bar but we've got a bottled one that you might like to try?


I'm confused. You said you wanted a low ABV beer, but then you asked the waiter for an IPA? Doesn't quite compute, unless you're from Greene King country.

And yes, the Sheps IPA has been utterly destroyed. It used to be arguably their best beer albeit only available in bottles in tied pubs, then it disappeared for a bit and then came back with distribution into supermarkets, and it's nothing like the old version.

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8064
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85290

Postby bungeejumper » October 3rd, 2017, 7:44 am

Sorry, no intention to confuse. A low-alcohol "session" IPA, in my book, is 3.5%, which is what I tend to drink when I'm out for a jar with friends; apart from some Greene King IPA Reserve (5.4%, and waaaaay too sweet for me), I'd not encountered strong IPA. Evidently I need to get out more. And without the car. :P

BJ

JMN2
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2156
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:21 am
Has thanked: 288 times
Been thanked: 282 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85296

Postby JMN2 » October 3rd, 2017, 8:17 am

Well, in some historical sense BJ is right, Greene King IPA at low abv% has been around for more than 100 years IIRC. I recently had a pint of Harviestoun "IPA" at around 3.8% and a lovely golden ale it was.

http://zythophile.co.uk/2015/02/25/why-greene-king-doesnt-care-that-the-haters-hate-its-ipa/

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8064
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85303

Postby bungeejumper » October 3rd, 2017, 8:49 am

JMN2 wrote:Well, in some historical sense BJ is right, Greene King IPA at low abv% has been around for more than 100 years IIRC. I recently had a pint of Harviestoun "IPA" at around 3.8% and a lovely golden ale it was.

Thanks. :) O/T, but I have this vague memory from the 1970s that Ruddles (coincidentally, now owned by Greene King) was told it couldn't describe its mainstream product as beer at all because it had less than 3% alcohol. Which was a particular problem, since it was also used by various supermarket chains as their own-brand brew. Purely out of interest, does that rule still apply? (I imagine not?)

BJ

JMN2
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2156
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:21 am
Has thanked: 288 times
Been thanked: 282 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85305

Postby JMN2 » October 3rd, 2017, 9:04 am

bungeejumper wrote:
JMN2 wrote:Well, in some historical sense BJ is right, Greene King IPA at low abv% has been around for more than 100 years IIRC. I recently had a pint of Harviestoun "IPA" at around 3.8% and a lovely golden ale it was.

Thanks. :) O/T, but I have this vague memory from the 1970s that Ruddles (coincidentally, now owned by Greene King) was told it couldn't describe its mainstream product as beer at all because it had less than 3% alcohol. Which was a particular problem, since it was also used by various supermarket chains as their own-brand brew. Purely out of interest, does that rule still apply? (I imagine not?)

BJ


HMRC Excise Notice 226, a very handy document by the way, beer is defined as "any liquor which is made or sold as a description of beer or as a substitute for beer, whose alcoholic strength exceeds 0.5% ABV"

although

"no duty is chargeable in the UK on beer that doesn’t exceed 1.2% ABV"

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3244 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85347

Postby didds » October 3rd, 2017, 10:54 am

Hallucigenia wrote:
I'm confused. You said you wanted a low ABV beer, but then you asked the waiter for an IPA? Doesn't quite compute, unless you're from Greene King country.



Or Wadworth.

https://www.wadworth.co.uk/beer-and-ale ... beers/ipa/

India Pale Ale was originally brewed for the British Empire in the East, as traditional beer couldn’t survive the long, six month journey.

Instead, enterprising brewers struck gold by creating an ale packed with hops, and with a higher alcohol content, protecting it as it made its way across the continents.

....

We consider our IPA to be one of the best; with an ABV of 3.6% it’s a light bronze ale with delicate malt aromas


whatever....


didds
Last edited by didds on October 3rd, 2017, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3244 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85348

Postby didds » October 3rd, 2017, 11:01 am

I would concur with Hallucigenia in that to me an IPA should be a stronger ABV (Alc) beer.

Its a much abused term that seems to mean anything and nothing now. The "Pale" part of the name not meaning anything either in particular regarding beverage colour.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KwdWxJhRLYQ/maxresdefault.jpg

Image

didds

Alaric
Lemon Half
Posts: 6033
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:05 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 1399 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85388

Postby Alaric » October 3rd, 2017, 1:26 pm

bungeejumper wrote: A low-alcohol "session" IPA, in my book, is 3.5%


Not all brewers follow that convention though. McMullens is one that doesn't, where the IPA is one of the strongest in their range.

https://www.mcmullens.co.uk/our-beers
https://www.mcmullens.co.uk/our-beers/mcmullen-ak
https://www.mcmullens.co.uk/our-beers/ipa

GrandOiseau
Lemon Slice
Posts: 529
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 12:18 am
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 76 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85409

Postby GrandOiseau » October 3rd, 2017, 2:40 pm

The likes of GK IPA, Wadsworths and Charles Wells Eagle IPA are not IPA's but standard bitters - very standard. Yes, they've been around a long time but the original style, now thankfully revived (by the Americans mostly!) is even older. No matter.

Fullers Bengal Lancer is widely available in bottles and is excellent. As is Marstons Old Empire. Jaipur is good also but there are plenty of others, from the UK or the States. It is one of my favourite styles of beer.

I've not had the Neame one which seems to be no loss on my part.

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85416

Postby AleisterCrowley » October 3rd, 2017, 2:59 pm

IPA : Hoppy, and strong(ish) - 5% or above
Don't know what GK 'IPA' is, but it isn't IPA. Would it survive a sea journey to India? I doubt it would survive a quick trip around Poole Harbour

BrummieDave
Lemon Slice
Posts: 818
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 200 times
Been thanked: 378 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85513

Postby BrummieDave » October 3rd, 2017, 8:06 pm

No, I doubt it would even survive the 200 mile trip to get there!

;-)

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2618
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 1718 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85668

Postby Hallucigenia » October 4th, 2017, 12:49 pm

GrandOiseau wrote:The likes of GK IPA, Wadsworths and Charles Wells Eagle IPA are not IPA's but standard bitters - very standard. Yes, they've been around a long time but the original style, now thankfully revived (by the Americans mostly!) is even older.


didds wrote:I would concur with Hallucigenia in that to me an IPA should be a stronger ABV (Alc) beer.

Its a much abused term that seems to mean anything and nothing now.


AleisterCrowley wrote:IPA : Hoppy, and strong(ish) - 5% or above
Don't know what GK 'IPA' is, but it isn't IPA. Would it survive a sea journey to India? I doubt it would survive a quick trip around Poole Harbour


Actually Greene King and others are genuine IPAs - there''s a lot of bluster about the early history of IPAs. The "original" IPAs were not that strong by the standards of the time, only 6-6.5% compared to contemporary beers that were 8-9%, the defining characteristic was that they had more hops. But how much of those hops were left after 9+months is debatable - I imagine there was significant Brett character though. Although the need for lots of hops for export to hot climates was recognised by the mid-18th century, it was only when the railway came to Burton in 1839 that the name "India Pale Ale" really became a thing, suggesting that it was primarily associated with domestic consumption of a beer that had been around for nearly a century. A Reid recipe from that time has an OG of 1057 and was hopped at 26.6 pounds per quarter.

It didn't take long before pasteurisation meant that neither alcohol nor hops were needed in the same way to preserve beer for long journeys, and as has been mentioned, there's a history of respectable IPAs at the 4-5% level going back to the 19th century.

bungeejumper wrote:Sorry, no intention to confuse. A low-alcohol "session" IPA, in my book, is 3.5%, which is what I tend to drink when I'm out for a jar with friends; apart from some Greene King IPA Reserve (5.4%, and waaaaay too sweet for me), I'd not encountered strong IPA. Evidently I need to get out more.


You just need to get away from Greene King pubs... The term has been completely reinvented by the US and outside small areas of East Anglia etc is generally taken to mean a beer of >5.5% and jammed full of piney/citrus hops from the New World. USians regard a session IPA as anything below 5.5% or so, whereas in the UK it's generally taken as meaning something more in the 4-4.5% range (again with New World hops), although we tend to refer to those kinds of beers more as American Pale Ales (APA). Broadly 3.5%-4% is bitter, 4-4.5% is best bitter - although the former seems to be dying out, a lot of pubs seem to go for a 3.8%-ish golden ale as their session beer these days, paired with a brown best of 4.2% or so as their core two cask ales.

But yep, if you ask a bar for IPA outside of East Anglia, they'll think you mean something stuffed full of New World hops and at least 5%, your barman of Kent will have probably been a bit embarassed that he "only" had a trad English IPA and not something stuffed full of Citra and Galaxy from Brewdog et al.Still, you could have asked him for a gay time not realising that, like IPA, the word has evolved from its original meaning....

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3244 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85675

Postby didds » October 4th, 2017, 1:00 pm

well, all I can add is that I grew up in Kent and from an early age (read 1970s) was told by all and sundry that IPA was a stronger, more flavoured beer than your standard mild/bitter and even best bitter. It certainly wasn't made with Citra and Mosaic etc and certainly wasn't some quasi blond ale in colour.

I would concur with the bitter = up to 4% ish, and best bitter closer to 4.5% and seen as "strong" historical understanding. These days 4.5% - even for standard ales - is pretty close to the norm I find. Then again I don't drink in large scale brewer's pubs, pub chains beginning with W - or even those owned by regional medium sized brewer's beginning with W.

The sweet stuff knocking around in those days was nips of barley wine, typically a smaller bottle than a half pint.

didds

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85734

Postby AleisterCrowley » October 4th, 2017, 4:26 pm

Hallucigenia wrote:....
Actually Greene King and others are genuine IPAs - there''s a lot of bluster about the early history of IPAs. The "original" IPAs were not that strong by the standards of the time, only 6-6.5% compared to contemporary beers that were 8-9%. ...



Objectively 6% + is strong regardless of the surrounding 'landscape'
Is it actually true that beers were 'typically ' 8-9% ? -I dont mean the outliers, I mean yer bog standard beer. I thought it was the other way round - the average strength of beer (and wine) having gradually increased over the years- perhaps that's just DrinkAware /Portman Group propaganda...!

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18679
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6563 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85766

Postby Lootman » October 4th, 2017, 5:45 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:
Hallucigenia wrote:....
Actually Greene King and others are genuine IPAs - there''s a lot of bluster about the early history of IPAs. The "original" IPAs were not that strong by the standards of the time, only 6-6.5% compared to contemporary beers that were 8-9%. ...

Objectively 6% + is strong regardless of the surrounding 'landscape'
Is it actually true that beers were 'typically ' 8-9% ? -I dont mean the outliers, I mean yer bog standard beer. I thought it was the other way round - the average strength of beer (and wine) having gradually increased over the years- perhaps that's just DrinkAware /Portman Group propaganda...!

But isn't GK IPA something like 3.6% ABV? If it were any weaker children could legally drink it.

It's really the only IPA I don't like, which is too bad because my local always has it.

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8064
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85776

Postby bungeejumper » October 4th, 2017, 6:02 pm

But isn't GK IPA something like 3.6% ABV? If it were any weaker children could legally drink it.

The Victorians thought nothing of giving their children gin if they didn't have any laudanum handy.

And I seem to recall that the gripe water they used to give to babies after the war was alcoholic as well. It may have helped to explain why it took so long before the little buggers could stand up. ;)

BJ

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2618
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 1718 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85791

Postby Hallucigenia » October 4th, 2017, 7:20 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:
Hallucigenia wrote:....
Actually Greene King and others are genuine IPAs - there''s a lot of bluster about the early history of IPAs. The "original" IPAs were not that strong by the standards of the time, only 6-6.5% compared to contemporary beers that were 8-9%. ...



Objectively 6% + is strong regardless of the surrounding 'landscape'
Is it actually true that beers were 'typically ' 8-9% ? -I dont mean the outliers, I mean yer bog standard beer. I thought it was the other way round - the average strength of beer (and wine) having gradually increased over the years- perhaps that's just DrinkAware /Portman Group propaganda...!


Before pasteurisation the typical range was 5-9%, and IPAs were generally at the lower end of the range. ISTR that Ron Pattinson has uncovered brewery records where the IPA was weaker than the mild being made at the same brewery (but if anything has gone through a bigger change of meaning than IPA, it's "mild").

Beer strength declined throughout the 20th century - pasteurisation was one factor, then Lloyd George and WWII/post-war rationing were the other main culprits. Just have a look through some of Ron Pattinson's recipes.

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2618
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 1718 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85845

Postby Hallucigenia » October 4th, 2017, 10:55 pm

Nice article looking at the dominance of "IPA" stateside :
http://goodbeerhunting.com/blog/2017/8/ ... -about-ipa

dionaeamuscipula
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1095
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:25 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: Strong IPA

#85920

Postby dionaeamuscipula » October 5th, 2017, 9:48 am

Hallucigenia wrote:Still, you could have asked him for a gay time not realising that, like IPA, the word has evolved from its original meaning....


Hmm? A Gaytime is the same today as it has been since 1959.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gaytime

MrsDM loves a Gaytime.

DM


Return to “Drink”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests