Wine from abroad

[UncleEbenezer]

Some countries keep their best wines to themselves. Notably Germany, which exports rubbish to us but has some much nicer wines they keep for themselves.

Just enjoyed a bottle of https://www.buergerspital.de/weingut/we ... swein.html [1], courtesy of German friends who bring such libations. Fantastic with my lentil-and-mushroom Madras curry. It would be good to be able to source wines like this in Blighty.

I haven't tried ordering online from Germany, and I'm wary of gotchas if I try to import booze - even if the retailer is happy to ship to me. Am I worrying about nothing? Do EU rules mean I can order them without onerous red tape or additional charges, or is booze different due to duties and restrictions?


[1] Nearest I can find online to the 2015 vintage of my now-empty bottle.

[Hallucigenia]

Some countries keep their best wines to themselves. Notably Germany, which exports rubbish to us but has some much nicer wines they keep for themselves.

This kind of comment always winds me up - it's just not true. Yes, they have a healthy domestic market and a lot of their wines are made in small quantities, so there's no great need to go to the bother of exporting - but the same is true of Burgundy. If the demand is there, then ways will be found to meet that demand. And there is some demand in the UK for good German wine - it's just not enough for Tesco to go beyond Black Tower. Franconian wine has a particular problem in that the Bocksbeutel is incompatible with packaging designed for normal bottles - the Wine Society refuse to sell them in mixed cases. But they do have a mixed case of Wirsching wines that by almost any metric you choose are much better than the wines you are looking at - Decanter gold medals etc. But they're not cheap (and TWS aren't making a huge mark up on them either, they're €24-28/bottle direct from the winery).

Likewise there are 20 different Auslesen from JJ Prum alone in the www.owloeb.com list, if that's not enough quality for you I'm not sure what would satisfy you.

As for importing - yep, duty means that booze is on the fringes of the Single Market, governments make it as difficult as possible to ensure they get their cut. It's not impossible, but realistically you'll find many normal retail stores aren't geared up for handling the paperwork. It looks like Burgerspital will do export but shipping alone is anything from €18 for 1 bottle to €24 for a case, with duty to come on top.

[simoan]

Some countries keep their best wines to themselves. Notably Germany, which exports rubbish to us but has some much nicer wines they keep for themselves.

This kind of comment always winds me up - it's just not true.

H,

Yes, it wound me up a bit too but I chose not to reply. If I had to drink German wine I'm not sure I'd particularly choose a Muller-Thurgau either. I think German wine has a bit of an image problem which goes back many years caused by memories of the 70's with Blue Nun, Black Tower etc. There's also a marketing problem with confusion about the dry/sweet labeling even of the modern wines, particularly Riesling, which means there's not actually much of a market for it as lack of clarity just confuses consumers. I can understand that this could lead to people naturally believing that because it's not widely available in supermarkets it's due to the Germans keeping the best wine to themselves. Of course, it's not true, and a good wine merchant will always have a decent selection, just don't expect to see good German wine in Tesco.

All the best, Si

[moorfield]

Some countries keep their best wines to themselves. Notably Germany, which exports rubbish to us but has some much nicer wines they keep for themselves.

This kind of comment always winds me up - it's just not true.

I'd tweak that slightly and say some countries keep their best value for money wines to themselves. Notably France! Probably not economically viable for them to even bother exporting a lot of those since there is likely a big enough domestic market as you commented Hallucigenia.

Even in the Carrefour Calais one doesn’t need to spend more than 4-ish euros for a bottle of red or white far superior than those that can be found in UK supermarkets, and the non-champagne sparklings such as the cremants, cavas offer even better saving. We always take the opportunity to stock up fully when passing through, rather than that dreadful Blossom Hill stuff on permanent offer in the Eurotunnel terminal.

[Hallucigenia]

I'd tweak that slightly and say some countries keep their best value for money wines to themselves. Notably France! Probably not economically viable for them to even bother exporting a lot of those since there is likely a big enough domestic market as you commented Hallucigenia.

Even in the Carrefour Calais one doesn’t need to spend more than 4-ish euros for a bottle of red or white far superior than those that can be found in UK supermarkets, and the non-champagne sparklings such as the cremants, cavas offer even better saving. We always take the opportunity to stock up fully when passing through, rather than that dreadful Blossom Hill stuff on permanent offer in the Eurotunnel terminal.

That's more about exploiting differences in duty. Add on the extra costs of transport and getting through customs and the sweet spot for UK retailers is a bit higher than those in countries with significant domestic production. But we have a massive advantage in our sweet spot in that we can play off producers from around the world, without the local obligations of the continental countries - there is nowhere that comes close to the UK for general quality of wine and value for money in the £7-equivalent level (adjusting for tax, so say €5-6 in Europe). Calais is a bit of a special case because you have the effect of such a concentration of warehouses all competing furiously for the daytripper market (although it's nothing like what it was 15-20 years ago) so you have locally depressed prices, I'm talking more the typical supermarket in a market town.

[tea42]

Having had some great German wines chosen by German pals that were not available here I am inclined to agree with the OPs assertion. I have a case of Bulgarian wine purchased locally by locals in Bulgaria for our village Winos evening. It will be interesting to see what they are like?

[simoan]

Having had some great German wines chosen by German pals that were not available here I am inclined to agree with the OPs assertion.

But the logic of your assertion is completely flawed! Just because you could not get a particular great German wine, is not the same as saying you cannot get any great German wines in the UK. I'm sorry but that's rubbish. If you only buy your wine from a supermarket you are unlikely to get any great wine whether it comes from Germany or anywhere else for that matter. If you use a good wine merchant you will easily find some really fine bottles of German wine. I think the idea that any exporter of wine would not seek to sell their best examples into the UK, which is one of the top markets for fine wine in the world, is just plain wrong. I absolutely love Spatburgunder and although good examples are not cheap in the UK, they are much cheaper that what you'd pay for Burgundy of similar quality.

All the best, Si

[UncleEbenezer]

Having had some great German wines chosen by German pals that were not available here I am inclined to agree with the OPs assertion.

But the logic of your assertion is completely flawed! Just because you could not get a particular great German wine, is not the same as saying you cannot get any great German wines in the UK.
All the best, Si

Of course not. But an accumulation of many such experiences over many years does begin to look like evidence.

Long ago as a postgrad student I had a similar experience, with a German friend who concluded that Brits didn't understand wine, as evidenced by the presence of things like Liebfraumilch in our shops. I had to counter that with the evidence of Cambridge colleges' wine cellars[1], that women didn't understand wine. Happily we both took each others' ribbing in the spirit in which it was intended, and I was very privileged to sample some of the wine she brought from Germany.

[1] I was an early male student at Girton; she was at one of the formerly-all-male colleges.

[simoan]

Of course not. But an accumulation of many such experiences over many years does begin to look like evidence.

But there's two ways of looking at most things and it's easy to focus on the wrong one because it fits a certain narrative. I think you'll find the actual problem is that of competition and getting German wines noticed in the UK. Given that the UK is such a big market for fine wine it's actually difficult for all but the very best German wines to get distribution in the UK. So the big problem is that of UK demand, not a German reluctance to export.

Long ago as a postgrad student I had a similar experience, with a German friend who concluded that Brits didn't understand wine, as evidenced by the presence of things like Liebfraumilch in our shops.

Well, to be fair, this was and still is true - most Brit's don't understand wine! However, I think they know enough to realise that Liebfraumilch and its ilk was an abomination and the reason you don't see it in UK supermarkets any more.

All the best, Si

[tsr2]

I haven't tried ordering online from Germany, and I'm wary of gotchas if I try to import booze - even if the retailer is happy to ship to me. Am I worrying about nothing? Do EU rules mean I can order them without onerous red tape or additional charges, or is booze different due to duties and restrictions?

I don't see an answer to this question in the other replies, so I will try to address it.

In my limited experience there is no difficulty in buying wine from within the EU. The main thing is that shipping charges are not always clear until you get to the checkout. After holidays in Portugal we have ordered wines online from Portugal 3 or 4 times.

One website gave a very cheap estimated delivery cost at the start, but the reality when we got to the checkout was an excessively stiff charge, so we abandoned that order and bought elsewhere.

Once ordered, delivery of the wine has been straightforward. It has taken a little longer to arrive than from a UK supplier, but there have been no complications.

I would expect customs to take an interest if you are shipping industrial quantities, but I wouldn't expect a case or two for a personal buyer to attract any attention.