Re:How to add tables

[mc2fool]

This has already been modified to have the code tags (instead of the <pre> tags used by TMF)

Well, you may well want to change it to using the [­pre] tags that either have just been introduced or I've only just noticed.

[pre] looks better as it puts things "inline" in the text of the post, as it did on TMF

Code: Select all

As opposed to [code] which puts things in their own box

[Gengulphus]

I was able to determine, to some extent, how the table thing worked, by selecting "view source" in the browser when on the preview post page.

Thanks - thought I'd looked for such things, but obviously I hadn't looked in quite the right place!

And thanks, stooz, for making the tables easier on the eye! Some suggestions after having a look at what uspaul666 has pointed out:

* Possibly change the column separator to be "&&" rather than just a single "&" - that would make it possible to have entries like "Marks & Spencer" in tables, and the only likely uses of "&&" that I can think of would be in Code boxes rather than tables.

* Or possibly change it to "||" to make it more intuitively memorable, suggesting a vertical line column separator?

* Closing brackets ")", "]" or "}" are unlikely characters to be wanted at the start of a table item, and similarly opening brackets "(", "[" or "{" are unlikely characters to be wanted at the end of a table item. One of the former could be used to indicate moving stuff over to the right, i.e. right-aligning the item, and the matching one of the latter could similarly be used to indicate left-alignment. (Unfortunately, while ">" and "<" would be the most intuitive pair because they clearly point in the correct directions, table entries starting with ">" for "greater than" are quite likely.)

I should say that having looked at the code uspaul666 has pointed out, I think all of the above should be straightforward - but I'm not familiar enough with JavaScript to be 100% certain of that!

Gengulphus

[Breelander]

[pre] looks better as it puts things "inline" in the text of the post, as it did on TMF

BBcode is safer (from the forum's point of view) because it keeps posters at arms length from writing 'raw' html and allows some of the more dangerous html options to be removed/ignored before arriving in the finished post. In the case of this [ pre ] BBcode, it's a straight translation to the html <pre> - so it's no surprise it works exactly the same as it did on TMF.

As on TMF, where you could nest other html tags (like <i></i> and <b></b>) within the <pre></pre> tags, so you can use BBcode tags here. Of particular use in financial tables would be colour for gains/losses.

Share    Price     Change on the year    Yield
name      (p)         (p)      (%)        (%)
ABC       100.0        0        0         3.5
DEF        61.75     -2.4     -3.7        4.2
GHI      1201.5     175.8     12.8        1.3

[Gengulphus]

BBcode is safer (from the forum's point of view) because it keeps posters at arms length from writing 'raw' html and allows some of the more dangerous html options to be removed/ignored before arriving in the finished post. In the case of this [ pre ] BBcode, it's a straight translation to the html <pre> - so it's no surprise it works exactly the same as it did on TMF.

Except that it doesn't work exactly the same as on TMF! It differs in a good way, namely that it will force line breaks to happen if you make lines too long - which typically happens when someone forgets that they have to enter the line breaks themselves, or when (as in my one memorable encounter with the problem) they inadvertently produce a lot of spaces at the end of a line. On TMF that just made the post wide enough to accommodate the widest line in the <pre>...</pre> section, enabling horizontal scrolling if necessary - which was horrible, especially if you were reading in whole-thread mode where the software would make every post as wide as the widest one!

Gengulphus

[mc2fool]

BBcode is safer (from the forum's point of view) because it keeps posters at arms length from writing 'raw' html and allows some of the more dangerous html options to be removed/ignored before arriving in the finished post.

Eh? Safer than what? TMF stripped out all HTML except the very few tags it allowed, and (AFAIK) phpBB removes all HTML not just "some of the more dangerous" ones.

In the case of this [ pre ] BBcode, it's a straight translation to the html <pre> - so it's no surprise it works exactly the same as it did on TMF.

As on TMF, where you could nest other html tags (like <i></i> and <b></b>) within the <pre></pre> tags, so you can use BBcode tags here. Of particular use in financial tables would be colour for gains/losses.

Grandmother, eggs.

[mc2fool]

Except that it doesn't work exactly the same as on TMF! It differs in a good way, namely that it will force line breaks to happen if you make lines too long

Uh?

This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 2 This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 3 This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 4  This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 5  This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 6 This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 7  This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 8  This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting.  9 This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting.

A horizontal scroll bar for just this post is what I call differing in a good way, not forcing line breaks into my formatting...

Now, if we could just get rid of that superfluous right hand panel, so we could usefully use the whole width of the window

[redsturgeon]

BBcode is safer (from the forum's point of view) because it keeps posters at arms length from writing 'raw' html and allows some of the more dangerous html options to be removed/ignored before arriving in the finished post.

Eh? Safer than what? TMF stripped out all HTML except the very few tags it allowed, and (AFAIK) phpBB removes all HTML not just "some of the more dangerous" ones.

In the case of this [ pre ] BBcode, it's a straight translation to the html <pre> - so it's no surprise it works exactly the same as it did on TMF.

As on TMF, where you could nest other html tags (like <i></i> and <b></b>) within the <pre></pre> tags, so you can use BBcode tags here. Of particular use in financial tables would be colour for gains/losses.

Grandmother, eggs.

mc2fool, please be aware that some of us actually may not be grandmothers and would find a quick course in egg sucking quite enlightening.

John

[mc2fool]

John, here you go (on a quick search, better guides may be available ). http://www.phpbb.com/community/faq.php?mode=bbcode

[Gengulphus]

Except that it doesn't work exactly the same as on TMF! It differs in a good way, namely that it will force line breaks to happen if you make lines too long

Uh?
...
A horizontal scroll bar for just this post is what I call differing in a good way, not forcing line breaks into my formatting...

But TMF didn't produce a horizontal scroll bar for just the post concerned - one person's excessively wide formatting could cause every post in whole-thread view to require horizontal scrolling. IMHO forcing line breaks into your formatting is definitely a less bad problem than forcing horizontal scrolling of everyone else's posts, so I stick to my opinion that the solution here differs from the solution at TMF in a good way.

Whether a hypothetical solution here in which excessively wide formatting causes horizontal scrolling of your post only would be better than both the TMF solution and the current solution here is debatable, but I was comparing the two solutions I've actually seen, not other as-yet-hypothetical solutions!

Gengulphus

[mc2fool]

Whether a hypothetical solution here in which excessively wide formatting causes horizontal scrolling of your post only would be better than both the TMF solution and the current solution here is debatable, but I was comparing the two solutions I've actually seen, not other as-yet-hypothetical solutions!

Uh? What hypothetical solution?!? Or are we seeing entirely different things?

My post above has a very (very) long line in a pre tag. The board (unlike what you said) does not introduce any line breaks but does add a horizontal scroll bar to just that post. That's what I'm seeing at least, and why I posted my previous "Uh"?, are you seeing something different?

[Gengulphus]

Whether a hypothetical solution here in which excessively wide formatting causes horizontal scrolling of your post only would be better than both the TMF solution and the current solution here is debatable, but I was comparing the two solutions I've actually seen, not other as-yet-hypothetical solutions!

Uh? What hypothetical solution?!? Or are we seeing entirely different things?

My post above has a very (very) long line in a pre tag. The board (unlike what you said) does not introduce any line breaks but does add a horizontal scroll bar to just that post. That's what I'm seeing at least, and why I posted my previous "Uh"?, are you seeing something different?

Ah! Yes, I'm seeing it forcibly wrapped every 110 characters, like this:

This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 2 This is a very long line in p
re tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 3 This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly 
copying and pasting. 4  This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 5  This
 is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 6 This is a very long line in pre t
ags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting. 7  This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly cop
ying and pasting. 8  This is a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting.  9 This is
 a very long line in pre tags that I am repeatedly copying and pasting.

Sorry about the misunderstanding, but in the light of that appearance to me, the obvious reading of "A horizontal scroll bar for just this post is what I call differing in a good way, not forcing line breaks into my formatting..." was that you didn't like what you saw and thought it less good than a horizontal scroll bar, not that you did like what you saw and thought it better than forced line breaks.

I'd guess a browser difference (I'm using IE11), though there could probably be other reasons. In any event, we now know an extra reason not to produce excessively wide pre-formatted material!

Gengulphus

[Instep]

I'd guess a browser difference (I'm using IE11), though there could probably be other reasons. In any event, we now know an extra reason not to produce excessively wide pre-formatted material!

I was coming to that conclusion after I was so pleased with my rework of your table in the HYP practical 41st purchase thread. It works fine for me in Chrome on Android phone and mini tablet and also in Chrome on Windows 10. I find it as easy to scroll around the table as in a spreadsheet.
I've not checked other browsers.
HTH
Instep
PS I'm even seeing a horizontal scroll bar on the [pre] section that you quoted, so I can scroll across to 110 characters.

[kiloran]

I'd guess a browser difference (I'm using IE11), though there could probably be other reasons. In any event, we now know an extra reason not to produce excessively wide pre-formatted material!

Gengulphus

I think you are right about the browser difference. Have a look at viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1342 which has the same data using code, table and pre tags

In Chrome, I see:
Code data has a vertical scroll bar, and the text is wrapped within the code window. The code window appears to be left-justified within the post
Table data has no scroll bars and is centre-justified horizontally within the post. Text is wrapped within each column
Pre data has a horizontal scroll bar and is left-justified within the post. The scroll bar moves all data in the post, not just the data in the pre tags

In IE11, I see:
Same as Chrome....Code data has a vertical scroll bar, and the text is wrapped within the code window. The code window appears to be left-justified within the post
Same as Chrome.....Table data has no scroll bars and is centre-justified horizontally within the post. Text is wrapped within each column
Pre data has no scroll bars, is left-justified within the post, and text is wrapped. A mess!!

In Firefox, I see:
Same as Chrome....Code data has a vertical scroll bar, and the text is wrapped within the code window. The code window appears to be left-justified within the post
Same as Chrome.....Table data has no scroll bars and is centre-justified horizontally within the post. Text is wrapped within each column
Pre data is same as Chrome....has a horizontal scroll bar and is left-justified within the post

--kiloran

[stooz]

All Change!

As recommended I have made the separator ---- ||

Two pipes.

Code: Select all

[table]L=STATISTIC||VALUE||STATISTIC||VALUE
L=Number of posts:||[i]11473[/i]||lklkl||373.79
L=Number of topics:||1163||Topics per day:||37.89
L=Number of users:||1810||[b]Users per day[/b]:||58.97[/table]

and widened the table


You can also align the text using the new align= tag - defaults to left. You can use Left, center, right (normal html text-align definitions)

[kiloran]

All Change!

As recommended I have made the separator ---- ||

Two pipes.

ARGH!!!!!
Talk about trying to hit a moving target!

--kiloran

[Instep]

I think I'll take a Break.
Can't keep up.

[stooz]

No more changes! Sorry!

[kiloran]

No more changes! Sorry!

No problem stooz, it's understandable with a new site, we've all got lots to learn. Just a pity that the changes work retrospectively, so earlier posts can get screwed up.

--kiloran

[Gengulphus]

ARGH!!!!!
Talk about trying to hit a moving target!

Sorry about pushing the target around - but if incompatible changes were going to be made, they needed making asap, to minimise the number of broken tables. And the use of "&" as the separator really did look likely to me to be a problem that shouldn't be frozen into the system...

And I promise I'm done on suggesting changes that are significantly incompatible!

Gengulphus

[Gengulphus]

No more changes! Sorry!

Possibly a bit of an overreaction - more changes can be done in a way that won't upset people. Essentially, by bringing in a 'table v2' option which is used for new posts while leaving the 'table' code in place to handle the old tables.

But things look good enough for the moment, so any 'table v2' changes can be saved up until (and if) they'll be a major improvement and reviewed for any problems people can see before being put in place. (Or possibly put in place via a 'table v2beta' option that is only available on a suitable testing board?)

And thanks for your efforts so far!

Gengulphus