Mods

[Raptor]

Whoops, just added mod box on HYP practical that topic has morphed and maybe more appropriate on Strategies.....

Raptor.

[Gengulphus]

Whoops, just added mod box on HYP practical that topic has morphed and maybe more appropriate on Strategies.....

Yes - but you've simply asked people to stop discussing the "morphed" topic (*) on HYP Practical rather than moving the posts over to High Yield Shares & Strategies or deleting them. Not saying that you should have done either of the latter - I imagine either would have required more time, very possibly more than you had available - but what it tells people in terms of practical consequences is that posting off-topic has no downside other than that the ensuing discussion may get cut short. And that downside might even actually be regarded as an upside by someone who wants to put forward their own message while reducing the chances of having its weaknesses exposed!

(*) Which coincidentally was "strategic ignorance", the thread having originally been about Shell - and a number of posters apparently either think that "strategic ignorance" applies to things other than views about the long-term future of companies, or know that it doesn't but can't resist the straw man of pretending that it does in order to argue against it...

Gengulphus

[Itsallaguess]

If a newcomer landed in HYP Practical, and was never to be exposed to a single discussion that might lead to other high-yield income strategies being considered, or even something more akin to a total-return strategy, (either by self-moderation to an extent where no-one at all posted anything related to any other strategy, or if such discussions were instantly deleted as if they never existed in the first place...) then would that really be seen as something we should collectively aim for as a broader investment community*?

Has anyone seen 'The Village' by M. Night Shyamalan?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Village_(2004_film)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7akpZ7wJ3g

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

* I totally agree that wider discussions around such topics should take place on the High Yield Strategies Board, or a similarly more-appropriate external board to HYP Practical, but surely that position would be better than one where HYP Practical is to all extents 'immunised' from any and all non-HYP discussions?

[Gengulphus]

If a newcomer landed in HYP Practical, and was never to be exposed to a single discussion that might lead to other high-yield income strategies being considered, or even something more akin to a total-return strategy, (either by self-moderation to an extent where no-one at all posted anything related to any other strategy, or if such discussions were instantly deleted as if they never existed in the first place...) then would that really be seen as something we should collectively aim for as a broader investment community*?

No, but that's easily dealt with: if you want to post about something off-topic that is related to a thread on HYP Practical, post on the board where it is on-topic, then post something along the lines of "I've replied about <subject> on <board> - see <link>. All replies over there, please." on HYP Practical. It's actually friendlier to the newcomer, as it doesn't lead them to think that the subject is on-topic on HYP Practical, post extensively about it on HYP Practical and then have their post removed or edited by the moderators, or discussion about it halted by the moderators. And while the "I've replied about <subject> on <board> - see <link>. All replies over there, please." post on HYP Practical is technically off-topic, nobody's likely to complain about it, and if by any chance they do, I'm sure the moderators have the common sense to ignore the complaint or tell the complainant not to be silly rather than doing anything about that post.

Of course, that course of action would be overkill if done about every single off-topic aside, no matter how small - one can post such asides on HYP Practical. But it is something one does at one's own risk, and if the moderators do take action against it - even just a moderator note saying to please not do it - learn not to repeat that particular mistake.

Gengulphus

[melonfool]

Lootman - in the hallowed words of QI "NOBODY KNOWS" and, quite frankly it doesn't matter.

Mel

=============================

to be equally frank - it does matter.

some people have lost some big chunks of their wealth having bought into the HYP idea without looking at the "other" board which may show red flags - why would they with the seductive cosy consensus prevalent on the HYP practical board .

as in TMF days , the attitude "its OUR board , go and play somewhere else" is still very much with us .

That doesn't make sense in the context of what I was replying to.

I was saying it doesn't matter why it happens on HYP and nowhere else. That's the thing that doesn't matter.

However, the board guidelines are there for all to see and if people simply buy into a concept without further research, well, really, it is a learning point for them.

Mel

[melonfool]

This thread, by the way, was not started to discuss how HYP gets confusing with there being two boards, so surely discussion of that is off topic and if someone has a concern about that they should start a new thread.

I read the board quite a lot and while I note the odd disagreement, I very rarely now see people complaining that posts need to move to the other board. I think the most recent guidelines have cleared things up a lot.

And I think some people just like to keep talking about this for their own amusement.

Mel

[Itsallaguess]

if you want to post about something off-topic that is related to a thread on HYP Practical, post on the board where it is on-topic, then post something along the lines of "I've replied about <subject> on <board> - see <link>. All replies over there, please." on HYP Practical.

It's actually friendlier to the newcomer, as it doesn't lead them to think that the subject is on-topic on HYP Practical, post extensively about it on HYP Practical and then have their post removed or edited by the moderators, or discussion about it halted by the moderators.

Totally agree - and much preferred to a completely 'self-policing' HYP Practical where everyone 'knows' not to post anything at all outside of the tight remit for the Practical board itself.....

Of course that clearly opens up the fact that things might cross the line from 'this is off-topic small-talk and won't too last long..' to 'we've not only wandered off-topic, but it's now gone on for so long that a different thread over on Strategies would have been the preferred avenue initially, if we'd known this would have gone on for as long as it has....', which is probably the basis of most of the major issues we now see on HYP Practical itself.

Not something that's easy to 'let ride' for long without some level of mod-interaction, unfortunately, but hopefully a good level of self-policing around this area can help to avoid the need for their direct involvement, but that does need a level of effort on behalf of the potential 'off-topic' posters themselves to help maintain...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Gengulphus]

Totally agree - and much preferred to a completely 'self-policing' HYP Practical where everyone 'knows' not to post anything at all outside of the tight remit for the Practical board itself.....

I don't think such a HYP Practical is even possible, at least while remaining useful! E.g. I could make a suggestion about the practical question of what share someone should buy for their HYP, but the moment I give reasons for my suggestion, I'm mentioning strategic considerations. Or someone could ask for such suggestions, but if they specify a restriction such as "no tobacco shares, please" or "no defence shares, please", they are mentioning ethical considerations, at least by implication.

Of course that clearly opens up the fact that things might cross the line from 'this is off-topic small-talk and won't too last long..' to 'we've not only wandered off-topic, but it's now gone on for so long that a different thread over on Strategies would have been the preferred avenue initially, if we'd known this would have gone on for as long as it has....', which is probably the basis of most of the major issues we now see on HYP Practical itself.

Yes, and in particular, one cause of those issues is that mentions of off-topic matters get treated as invitations to debate them. E.g. someone mentions 'strategic ignorance' as their reason for not regarding a popular concern about a share as important, someone else replies attacking the whole idea of 'strategic ignorance', and a strategic argument rapidly blows up between those who are for it and against it. The problem there isn't the original mention of the 'strategic ignorance' reason, which I basically believe has to be allowed and is in itself harmless, but the attack on the whole idea of 'strategic ignorance'. All that is needed for the original topic of the thread is either agreement that the popular concern about the share is unimportant (presumably for other reasons, of course), or disagreement accompanied by one's own reasons for believing the specific concern to be important.

But on matters that have become sensitive, it often only takes one poster to launch that attack and others join in enthusiastically, and the whole issue can easily blow up into a major off-topic argument in a few hours - which may well be before any moderator can realistically be expected to intervene.

Not something that's easy to 'let ride' for long without some level of mod-interaction, unfortunately, but hopefully a good level of self-policing around this area can help to avoid the need for their direct involvement, but that does need a level of effort on behalf of the potential 'off-topic' posters themselves to help maintain...

I'd say it mainly requires such effort - there's little in the way of self-policing that others can do other than resist the temptation to get involved themselves.

Gengulphus