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Mods

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
Dod101
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Mods

#138348

Postby Dod101 » May 11th, 2018, 2:23 pm

Is this the place to write of mods and the removal/amendment of posts?

On the HYP Practical Board we have had an epidemic of removals and deletions in the last week or two and it is totally upsetting the entire flow of threads. I completely understand that it is necessary to keep posts on topic but I think to pander to anyone who has the slightest objection to a post by deleting it is very unfair on the OP especially when he gets no opportunity to explain himself. The mod is judge jury and executioner.

People will get fed up and simply stop posting which would be a shame because we can all learn a lot by sensible discussion but if we cannot express an opinion without risking deletion there is not much point is there?

Dod

Howard
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Re: Mods

#138359

Postby Howard » May 11th, 2018, 2:50 pm

Sorry Dod, but I fully support the moderators. They make the Lemon Fool a civilised place for discussion.

There are some contributors who seem to enjoy having a go at HYPers and can't resist advocating total return or investing for capital appreciation on the HYP practical board.

It's a bit like motorists insisting that people discussing riding on the cycling board should throw away their cycles and get cars.

There are other boards to raise other investing issues. Let's stick to the rules.

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Re: Mods

#138360

Postby GoSeigen » May 11th, 2018, 3:07 pm

Dod101 wrote:Is this the place to write of mods and the removal/amendment of posts?

On the HYP Practical Board we have had an epidemic of removals and deletions in the last week or two and it is totally upsetting the entire flow of threads. I completely understand that it is necessary to keep posts on topic but I think to pander to anyone who has the slightest objection to a post by deleting it is very unfair on the OP especially when he gets no opportunity to explain himself. The mod is judge jury and executioner.

People will get fed up and simply stop posting which would be a shame because we can all learn a lot by sensible discussion but if we cannot express an opinion without risking deletion there is not much point is there?

Dod



Dod, this was discussed in a recent thread on this board where I suggested that explanation of deletions be given as a matter of policy. This was Clariman's response in #135279:

In response to your comment about notifications when posts have been deleted, I agree with what you say. In an ideal world, all mod deletions or edits should come with an explanation, but sometimes it is impractical. The Mods are volunteers who may have full-time jobs, families, illnesses, hectic schedules etc., so there time may be limited. Nevertheless they all do their best and we should appreciate them for what they do, because they receive no reward and little thanks sometimes. TMF was a commercial site that had some paid employees to police and manage the boards. TLF is not a commercial site and we are all volunteers.

So I don't think we should expect to get any further clarity on this at the moment. Clearly resources are limited and the owners are satisfied with things as they are. So maybe we should just put up with it, be careful how we post and/or vote with our feet if unhappy.

GS

maximan
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Re: Mods

#138362

Postby maximan » May 11th, 2018, 3:15 pm

I am with Dod101 on this one, let the boards flow. We are all adults and can skip posts easily I do it all the time especially from posters with form.
Is Off Topic really such a crime it can often be amusing and informative.
Just for clarity there is no place for abuse on TLF.

dspp
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Re: Mods

#138381

Postby dspp » May 11th, 2018, 3:55 pm

Dod,

There is a specific issue on HYP-Practical that does not occur on most other boards.

A. You all have slightly different interpretations about what constitutes the core tenets of a HYP strategy. Also you are all reasonable people and ramble to suit yourselves, within, and slightly outside of what you consider to be relevant to the tenets you subscribe to. And you are all individual & different, and vary from day to day, and evolve from year to year.

B. At any given moment maybe a quarter (or less) of the available large-ish cap FTSE stocks fit into a HYP screen, and get incorporated into some people's HYP-based portfolios. But over time the fortunes of individual stocks wax and wane and a much larger proportion - maybe half (or more) - of the large cap FTSE universe will have at some time been a reasonable HYP pick by someone. And so a valid discussion item as of course in a "seldom-sell" strategy (which is how I could paraphrase an aspect of HYP) they do tend to stick around in someone's portfolio and therefore be discussable by all.

Take those two propositions and - if they are true - what you have is that anybody can make a case for rambling to their heart's content, on pretty much anything they like that is vaguely HYPish, on a very large proportion of the large cap universe, on the HYP-Practical board. And when they do someone else who holds a slightly different set of HYP tenets starts sniping, and then it rapidly gets out of control on the HYP-Practical board. That is why we as Mods tend to take a fairly centralist view on the HYP-Practical board with respect to what I have termed proposition A.

There are many other boards on which a far wider discussion can be had, on a far wider ranger of strategies and grounds and evidence and etc. Indeed we very much encourage it, just not on HYP-Practical. But what we are trying to do is to keep the HYP-Practical board from being a complete bunfight over what constitutes a reasonable vs an unreasonable digression. I can guarantee you it is not an easy Mod task as you all have different views on what is a reasonable digression.

You are all reasonable and intelligent and fair-minded people and we Mods are grateful for your support in this joint endeavour :)

regards, dspp

Dod101
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Re: Mods

#138390

Postby Dod101 » May 11th, 2018, 4:29 pm

Thanks to dspp in particular for taking the trouble to respond in detail and I think all of us have much appreciation for most of the mods and what they have to do.

What really incensed me is referred to in my last post on the BT thread where some sensitive souls took exception to my phraseology and without more ado the mod (not dspp) removed what was said to be the offensive sentence. A quick referral to me (or a response to those apparently offended to tell them to grow up) would have solved the 'problem'. I do not have form and always try to be reasonable but without expressions of opinions what is the point of the Board?

My opinion has been variously called offensive, insulting and even abusive. For goodness sake!

csearle
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Re: Mods

#138461

Postby csearle » May 12th, 2018, 12:25 am

Someone somewhere said here recently that they felt a certain tolerance of slight HYP off-topicness was not such a terrible thing (opened up avenue's of thought) and that only once the off-topicness was sustained to the point that it was distracting the thread too much from the OP's main thrust should it be reined in. This is a stance that I find quite compelling.


Regards,
Chris

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Re: Mods

#138489

Postby jackdaww » May 12th, 2018, 9:06 am

i posted something along these lines on TMF some years ago .

""
One cannot post anything mildly critical of the "cult" without getting reported - anonymously - and inevitably deleted by the meekly aquiescent / over zealous moderators .

""
in those days , many of my posts were deleted .

with the advent of TLF things have been greatly improved as far as my posts are concerned .

i am sad to hear of any possible return to the agendas prevalent during TMF days

:(

Itsallaguess
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Re: Mods

#138491

Postby Itsallaguess » May 12th, 2018, 9:22 am

jackdaww wrote:
With the advent of TLF things have been greatly improved as far as my posts are concerned .

I am sad to hear of any possible return to the agendas prevalent during TMF days


I think that's over-egging the pudding somewhat, if I may say so, but whilst I'm here I should also point out that the existance of 'agendas' is a two-way-street, and may also exist on behalf of TLF-posters themselves, so I hope you can at least recognise the difficult task that exists where unpaid volunteers try to work with everyone in a way that tries to maintain a lively, healthy area for the large number of topics to debate, whilst also trying to maintain a sensible level of behaviour at the same time.

Please believe me when I tell you that a lot of work goes on behind the scenes to try to ensure that a fair and even-handed approach is taken to these tasks, across all areas of this site.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Dod101
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Re: Mods

#138504

Postby Dod101 » May 12th, 2018, 10:36 am

Itsallaguess wrote:[I think that's over-egging the pudding somewhat, if I may say so, but whilst I'm here I should also point out that the existance of 'agendas' is a two-way-street, and may also exist on behalf of TLF-posters themselves, so I hope you can at least recognise the difficult task that exists where unpaid volunteers try to work with everyone in a way that tries to maintain a lively, healthy area for the large number of topics to debate, whilst also trying to maintain a sensible level of behaviour at the same time.

Please believe me when I tell you that a lot of work goes on behind the scenes to try to ensure that a fair and even-handed approach is taken to these tasks, across all areas of this site.


You sound as if you know more than me and having made my peace at least pro tem with the mods I do not want to open this up again but I felt a better response by the Mod might have been 'grow up' to an objector rather than delete an innocent comment of mine. Plenty of stuff I just ignore although I could easily object as well.

Dod

dspp
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Re: Mods

#138512

Postby dspp » May 12th, 2018, 12:10 pm

Believe me Dod, we Mods do display quite a lot of Strategic Ignorance towards many reports and PMs and complaints :)

We definitely do not have an agenda in the way that some might (wrongly) think, and there most certainly is no direct carry-over amongst Mods from TMF to TLF. However we do recognise that some contributors do have agendas, and we do take that into account as we act.

Of course we also make mistakes. To err is to be human.

regards, dspp

PinkDalek
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Re: Mods

#138533

Postby PinkDalek » May 12th, 2018, 2:04 pm

FredBloggs wrote:I just don't go in there [HYP]. The constant reference to what someone may or may not have said, or may or may not have meant if they did/did not say anything almost twenty years ago is of zero interest to many, I guess most LF readers. Closely followed by more discussion about "the roolz" than about investing, it is a tedious place at the best of times. I just stay away. I wonder how many others do the same?


With all due respect, I think you'll find you do. ;)

Maybe not since April though.

CryptoPlankton
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Re: Mods

#138690

Postby CryptoPlankton » May 13th, 2018, 1:07 am

Dod101 wrote:
...I felt a better response by the Mod might have been 'grow up' to an objector rather than delete an innocent comment of mine. Plenty of stuff I just ignore although I could easily object as well.

Dod


I believe one of your deletions was the phrase "With respect, more fool you" - directed at someone saying they would have liked to have topped up BT. Whether or not you consider that innocent, surely the mods could just as justifiably tell you to "grow up" for making a song and dance about the removal of such a petty comment (with respect, of course... ;))

CryptoPlankton
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Re: Mods

#138694

Postby CryptoPlankton » May 13th, 2018, 2:03 am

FredBloggs wrote:
PinkDalek wrote:
FredBloggs wrote:I just don't go in there [HYP]. The constant reference to what someone may or may not have said, or may or may not have meant if they did/did not say anything almost twenty years ago is of zero interest to many, I guess most LF readers. Closely followed by more discussion about "the roolz" than about investing, it is a tedious place at the best of times. I just stay away. I wonder how many others do the same?


With all due respect, I think you'll find you do. ;)

Maybe not since April though.

Yes, I have occasionally answered a new thread (I sort my LF on new posts) in the those hallowed halls without realising I had done so, that is true. I never do so knowingly and I never use the front door to that forum since the amusement I had at the shallowness of the discussions has, in the main long since bored me.

This kind of HYP-bashing is a curious phenomenon - heartfelt disinterest!

Dod101
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Re: Mods

#138709

Postby Dod101 » May 13th, 2018, 8:33 am

CryptoPlankton wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
...I felt a better response by the Mod might have been 'grow up' to an objector rather than delete an innocent comment of mine. Plenty of stuff I just ignore although I could easily object as well.

Dod


I believe one of your deletions was the phrase "With respect, more fool you" - directed at someone saying they would have liked to have topped up BT. Whether or not you consider that innocent, surely the mods could just as justifiably tell you to "grow up" for making a song and dance about the removal of such a petty comment (with respect, of course... ;))


If I wrote that it was not very considered I must say. One of the problems with deletions under TLF is that it is simply gone and the accused if he cannot remember is at a loss to defend himself, but I am letting this all go now as I have had my say.

Dod

csearle
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Re: Mods

#138718

Postby csearle » May 13th, 2018, 9:17 am

Dod101 wrote:One of the problems with deletions under TLF is that it is simply gone and the accused if he cannot remember is at a loss to defend himself...
This is a good point. In the future I intend to make a note of any deletions I make so that afterwards, if wished, the poster can find out from me.

Regards,
Chris

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Re: Mods

#138747

Postby mc2fool » May 13th, 2018, 11:12 am

csearle wrote:
Dod101 wrote:One of the problems with deletions under TLF is that it is simply gone and the accused if he cannot remember is at a loss to defend himself...
This is a good point. In the future I intend to make a note of any deletions I make so that afterwards, if wished, the poster can find out from me.

I thought such posts (usually) weren't actually deleted but just hidden from public view.

Clariman wrote:
mc2fool wrote:Idle curiosity question: are deleted post here actually permanently deleted, or are they still there and just hidden, as they were on TMF?

There is a Soft Delete and a Hard Delete options. Soft deleted posts can be reinstated but not Hard deleted ones. Mods have the power to soft delete and those posts can be viewed by Admin and other Mods. I think Admin (Stooz and I) are the only ones who can hard delete.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2847&p=27020#p27020

csearle
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Re: Mods

#138753

Postby csearle » May 13th, 2018, 11:41 am

mc2fool wrote:I thought such posts (usually) weren't actually deleted but just hidden from public view.
That's true for complete deletions but not for deletions made by editing the post. C.

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Re: Mods

#138762

Postby melonfool » May 13th, 2018, 11:54 am

I won't be making a note I'm afraid. I do a lot of moderation via the phone on the train, at work, in bed..... I am not going to be keeping a notepad, even a virtual one, with me to make such notes.

As has been said, full post deletions are only soft deleted, so other mods can still see them (which is useful if you come to mod and some previous moderation has taken place, you can see how things escalated and what standard has been set etc) so the answer to this is to ditch the 'in post' text deletion and just delete whole posts for small transgressions.

Which I am sure most people actually *don't* want us to do!

Mel

GoSeigen
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Re: Mods

#138786

Postby GoSeigen » May 13th, 2018, 1:14 pm

melonfool wrote:I won't be making a note I'm afraid. I do a lot of moderation via the phone on the train, at work, in bed..... I am not going to be keeping a notepad, even a virtual one, with me to make such notes.

As has been said, full post deletions are only soft deleted, so other mods can still see them (which is useful if you come to mod and some previous moderation has taken place, you can see how things escalated and what standard has been set etc) so the answer to this is to ditch the 'in post' text deletion and just delete whole posts for small transgressions.

Which I am sure most people actually *don't* want us to do!

Mel


The TMF way actually worked pretty well: for every deletion send PM to user, attaching copy of deleted post and brief summary of broken rule/reason for deletion.

Then you knew what was wrong and had the text to make alterations and repost.


However reinventing the wheel is much more fun!

GS


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