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Ugh

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
Howyoudoin
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Ugh

#154555

Postby Howyoudoin » July 23rd, 2018, 11:02 pm

This place is terrible due to over moderation.

Is this post allowed John or is there a better board?

HYD

PinkDalek
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Re: Ugh

#154556

Postby PinkDalek » July 23rd, 2018, 11:08 pm

It’s getting like the old days.

RS told you where such discussions might take place, at the foot here viewtopic.php?p=154534#p154534

Clitheroekid
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Re: Ugh

#154565

Postby Clitheroekid » July 24th, 2018, 1:03 am

Howyoudoin wrote:This place is terrible due to over moderation.

Is this post allowed John or is there a better board?

HYD

Bad day HYD?

csearle
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Re: Ugh

#154587

Postby csearle » July 24th, 2018, 8:07 am

Howyoudoin wrote:This place is terrible due to over moderation.
You rock up here a year or so late, post stuff in all the wrong places, and then start criticising the way this place has developed. Try a little humility. C.

Howyoudoin
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Re: Ugh

#154597

Postby Howyoudoin » July 24th, 2018, 9:09 am

"You rock up here a year or so late, post stuff in all the wrong places,"

Still waiting for someone to tell me how it is possible to be 'off topic' in a pub?

Have property prices never been discussed in a pub before?


HYD

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Ugh

#154602

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 24th, 2018, 9:32 am

It's not so much 'off topic' as attitude.
The Snug is for good-natured rambling posts, ideally to lower the blood pressure
Your original post was the equivalent of someone storming into a pub with a baseball bat asking dissenters outside for a fight

Lootman
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Re: Ugh

#154603

Postby Lootman » July 24th, 2018, 9:35 am

Howyoudoin wrote:Still waiting for someone to tell me how it is possible to be 'off topic' in a pub?

When I worked in a pub we were told never to discuss two topics - religion or politics.

Football was fine even though no less emotional.

Howyoudoin
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Re: Ugh

#154606

Postby Howyoudoin » July 24th, 2018, 9:43 am

Lootman wrote:
Howyoudoin wrote:Still waiting for someone to tell me how it is possible to be 'off topic' in a pub?

When I worked in a pub we were told never to discuss two topics - religion or politics.

Football was fine even though no less emotional.



Ha ha. Without those three topics, there would be very little conversation going on in most pubs!

Those pubs that still exist of course. Dying breed these days. Unless you like ones that serve food all day and are full of screaming kids.


HYD

stewamax
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Re: Ugh

#154629

Postby stewamax » July 24th, 2018, 10:46 am

Lootman wrote:
Howyoudoin wrote:Still waiting for someone to tell me how it is possible to be 'off topic' in a pub?

When I worked in a pub we were told never to discuss two topics - religion or politics.
Football was fine even though no less emotional.


Religion or politics? Fine; interesting; no problem.
Fishing? Doesn't arouse my inner fly, but chacun a ...
Cricket? Silly mid off, deep backward point and short third man are very English: redolent of when we ran an Empire; proper chaps.
Rugby? Here in the East Midlands we have Leicester Tigers busy devouring their weaker brethren. Prime proof of Natural Selection.
Racing and foxhunting? Uncontroversial around here, but 'here' is where the latter was invented. Sodden with horse culture.

But football?? - tedious, mindless and incomprehensible - I would decamp to another pub.

Howyoudoin
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Re: Ugh

#155149

Postby Howyoudoin » July 25th, 2018, 9:09 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:It's not so much 'off topic' as attitude.
The Snug is for good-natured rambling posts, ideally to lower the blood pressure


Ah yes Aleister. I think you might be referring to 'good-natured' posts like this one:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12853

"They threatened to send a video of me watching porn to my contact list if I did not send about £1000 via bitcoin."

Is that the kind of good natured post you were referring to?


HYD

Clitheroekid
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Re: Ugh

#155276

Postby Clitheroekid » July 26th, 2018, 11:06 am

Howyoudoin wrote:Ah yes Aleister. I think you might be referring to 'good-natured' posts like this one:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12853

"They threatened to send a video of me watching porn to my contact list if I did not send about £1000 via bitcoin."

Is that the kind of good natured post you were referring to?


HYD

You seem to be confusing the content of the post with the attitude of the person posting it.

AC's post may have referred to a disturbing event, but it wasn't posted in a remotely aggressive way. As in a pub, it was simply related as an unpleasant thing that happened to him that might have been (and was in my case) of interest to other people that were present.

Your opening post, on the other hand, did sound aggressive. It was the equivalent of walking into a pub and saying to the people in there, "Christ, what a dump!"

It may be that this wasn't what you meant - irony can very easily be missed when it's just written text - but you can't blame people for being somewhat taken aback, to put it mildly.

There's also the point that it followed on from your earlier post that was clearly aimed at a large number of people on this board:

Some of you, who are between 30 and 60, have caused a property bubble that will affect generations to come.

You've made it almost impossible for a first time buyer to get on the housing ladder. Are you proud of yourselves?

Anyone that has more than one property in this Country has caused this.

I hope, through your greed, that you can live with yourselves.

This wasn't in normal third party terms, i.e.

"Some people, who are between 30 and 60 ... Are they proud of themselves?

They've made it almost impossible ...

I hope through their greed, that they can live with themselves."

See the difference? The post was targeted specifically at those reading it, which was by any normal standard aggressive.

I've not bothered to read the thread in PD, as it's the one board on here that I try to avoid. However, I do think AC's criticism was justified, and I'd hope that you can see why.

But I'd also hope that you'll keep posting here (albeit in a way that doesn't scare the pub cat!) as I've enjoyed many of your posts :)

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Ugh

#155282

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 26th, 2018, 11:17 am

For the avoidance of doubt, the 'sextortion' post linked to was by RedSturgeon, not myself.
My laptop is so old it doesn't have a webcam...

Howyoudoin
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Re: Ugh

#155285

Postby Howyoudoin » July 26th, 2018, 11:34 am

"See the difference? The post was targeted specifically at those reading it, which was by any normal standard aggressive.

I've not bothered to read the thread in PD, as it's the one board on here that I try to avoid. However, I do think AC's criticism was justified, and I'd hope that you can see why. "

Yep, duly recced.

It would've been better if the post was just deleted for being aggressive rather than moved to 'Polite' Discussions.

I'm not the only one moaning that the Snug seems particularly unwelcome at the moment, with posters being told that there are boards that have been specially set up to discuss what they want to talk about.

And I find it particularly ironic that one of the mods on here is posting about stuff that might be better placed on the 'Computer' board but I guess, as in life, there is a rule for them and a rule for us.

Best,


HYD

redsturgeon
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Re: Ugh

#155309

Postby redsturgeon » July 26th, 2018, 12:34 pm

Moderator Message:
This whole thread, as pointed out previously should be on the Biscuit Bar, I will be moving it there.

HYD,

You posted a message here that as you can see from the feedback of regular users was viewed as quite aggressive in nature and did not belong in the Snug. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, did not delete it and moved it for you to Polite Discussion where I felt it would be more at home. In fact when I moved it there I notice you had posted a very similar post there as well...it seems you did realise the most appropriate forum without any help from me. Again in the spirit of goodwill and helpfulness I merged the two post into one thread. That thread has generated quite a bit of polite discussion (37 posts) over there and I am surprised that you haven't joined in apart from the one response which had to have some personal remarks edited out.

The moderators here, unlike TMF, are unpaid volunteers who give their time freely to maintain this site for the benefit of all users. I have personally now spent more time than I would like on dealing with your posts over the last few days, can I please request that you refrain from actions that require moderation for at least the next week to give me a bit of a break.

You are very welcome to post here but you are subject to the same rules as everyone else here, including the moderators. Indeed if you think that a post from me or anyone else has broken any rules then feel free to report it using the report button top right. It will be dealt with appropriately by the moderator team.

John

melonfool
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Re: Ugh

#155317

Postby melonfool » July 26th, 2018, 1:08 pm

Maybe it would help to bring HYD up to speed to point out that the board software is different to that which TMF had, which brings advantages, disadvantages and challenges.

One of the differences is the ability to move or merge a thread/s. There have been debates about how useful this is, but, on balance, we have decided it is helpful. Doing it is not a sanction, merely a matter of admin. We usually (not always) leave a 'shadow' on the previous board so that anyone on that board can see it and follow it to the new board.

Merging threads is actually a gigantic pain, if there are only a few posts it's not too bad, but if it's a long thread, with many changes of topic, weeding out posts to move is onerous - I have done it, with the help in that case of a board reader pointing out posts I've missed etc, but it took a long time to do and most of us don't have that time - so this action is rarer. Again, it's not a sanction, it's not even really 'moderation', it's merely admin.

Neither of these things happened on TMF (I can remember one time Grow moved a thread to another board, to CDF I think, but it was moved by copy and paste, so the individual posts were not on that board, just a great long copy within one post - most unsatisfactory!) so I can understand why it might be disconcerting.

I've checked the rules and it does not seem to be mentioned, so maybe we need to address that so people know it might happen.

Mel

Howyoudoin
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Re: Ugh

#155334

Postby Howyoudoin » July 26th, 2018, 1:39 pm

The moderators here, unlike TMF, are unpaid volunteers who give their time freely to maintain this site for the benefit of all users. I have personally now spent more time than I would like on dealing with your posts over the last few days, can I please request that you refrain from actions that require moderation for at least the next week to give me a bit of a break.

Apologies John.


HYD

Howyoudoin
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Re: Ugh

#155335

Postby Howyoudoin » July 26th, 2018, 1:41 pm

melonfool wrote:Maybe it would help to bring HYD up to speed to point out that the board software is different to that which TMF had, which brings advantages, disadvantages and challenges.

One of the differences is the ability to move or merge a thread/s. There have been debates about how useful this is, but, on balance, we have decided it is helpful. Doing it is not a sanction, merely a matter of admin. We usually (not always) leave a 'shadow' on the previous board so that anyone on that board can see it and follow it to the new board.

Merging threads is actually a gigantic pain, if there are only a few posts it's not too bad, but if it's a long thread, with many changes of topic, weeding out posts to move is onerous - I have done it, with the help in that case of a board reader pointing out posts I've missed etc, but it took a long time to do and most of us don't have that time - so this action is rarer. Again, it's not a sanction, it's not even really 'moderation', it's merely admin.

Neither of these things happened on TMF (I can remember one time Grow moved a thread to another board, to CDF I think, but it was moved by copy and paste, so the individual posts were not on that board, just a great long copy within one post - most unsatisfactory!) so I can understand why it might be disconcerting.

I've checked the rules and it does not seem to be mentioned, so maybe we need to address that so people know it might happen.

Mel



Very helpful thanks Mel.

HYD

Gengulphus
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Re: Ugh

#155864

Postby Gengulphus » July 28th, 2018, 8:17 pm

melonfool wrote:Merging threads is actually a gigantic pain, if there are only a few posts it's not too bad, but if it's a long thread, with many changes of topic, weeding out posts to move is onerous - I have done it, with the help in that case of a board reader pointing out posts I've missed etc, but it took a long time to do and most of us don't have that time - so this action is rarer. ...

I think I recognise that case - if so, I can add that it took quite a bit of work for the board reader as well! And that case was actually simpler than it could have been, because each post did individually belong either where it was or in the place posts were being moved to, not both. It could have been still worse if there had been 'half and half' posts - i.e. with a mixture of significant comments about both of the topics involved. I think the board software could cope with that, allowing the moderator to make a copy of the post, edit down each of the original and the copy to appropriate comments and then move the copy to the new board. But it would probably add an order of magnitude of yet more work to the process!

It was worth doing once to find out what's involved, I think, but I haven't felt tempted to repeat the experience! Basically, the lesson learned was that some of the early expectations (this was in the first few months of TLF's existence) about the advantages the phpBB software would have for moderators had been over-inflated...

Gengulphus


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