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Dod's farewell.

Pull up a chair, have a biscuit - discuss the site and general questions about the LemonFool
csearle
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158936

Postby csearle » August 12th, 2018, 12:00 pm

Alaric wrote:Perhaps it [C: High Yield Portfolios (HYP) - Practical] should be boycotted by all posters disinterested in the theology. That means in practice that the RNS announcements that seem its staple should be elsewhere.
I agree with this, although I'd have used less colourful words. IMO most of the RNS announcements posted there would be far better on company-specific boards. In the absence of such boards (and providing the companies mentioned can conceivably be part of a high yield strategy) most of them would be far more on-topic on the High Yield Shares & Strategies - general board. (Or a future Investing for Income board.)

In that way the general chat about such companies could continue without it hijacking a board deliberately set up for a particular strategy*.

Regards,
Chris
*A strategy that does not attach huge value to following every twist and turn of a company's business transactions.
Last edited by csearle on August 12th, 2018, 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

idpickering
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158938

Postby idpickering » August 12th, 2018, 12:01 pm

Walrus wrote:
idpickering wrote:As an early bird in the morning, I’m always up for the RNS items, and am interested in announcements regarding my holdings in my 32 share HYP. I know others hold similar shares to me, which is why I put the links to the RNS on the HYP Practical Board, for my fellow HYPers to see. I’ve received no complaints thus far, and my doing so seems to be well received. If a reader doesn’t want to look at them, then don’t.

Ian.



They are very much appreciated Ian, and have a wider audience than HYP in its strict form. They often start a conversation, however seemingly because of where they are posted, comments related to the information are subject to a higher degree of moderation seems to be what I have gleaned from this whole set of messages.


Thank you Walrus. I must admit that I do try to generate some chat regarding the contents of any given RNS, which I find informative. I don’t recall any posts telling me to take them elsewhere.

Ian.

melonfool
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158940

Postby melonfool » August 12th, 2018, 12:02 pm

Alaric wrote:
Walrus wrote: They often start a conversation, however seemingly because of where they are posted, comments related to the information are subject to a higher degree of moderation seems to be what I have gleaned from this whole set of messages.


That's exactly the point. Someone wishing to comment that xxx had a very similar business model to yyy (supposedly a HYP share) would be unable to if it transpired that xxx had a dividend yield which fell outside arbitrary guidelines.


And why is that a problem? If you want to discuss a non 'HYP' share, do it somewhere else than on the HYP board. If that discussion stems from a post on the HYP board, maybe post a link on the board you want to discuss something not HYP and start a thread on a different board to continue and expand the discussion. This happens all the time on DAK etc and no-one seems to have any issue about it.

If you are complaining that the RNS are posted on HYP, there is nothing to stop you posting the RNS on another board as well. if you don't want to get up early and do the reasearch, you can even just pinch the link from the post on HYP.

Mel

idpickering
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158945

Postby idpickering » August 12th, 2018, 12:15 pm

melonfool wrote:
Alaric wrote:
Walrus wrote: They often start a conversation, however seemingly because of where they are posted, comments related to the information are subject to a higher degree of moderation seems to be what I have gleaned from this whole set of messages.


That's exactly the point. Someone wishing to comment that xxx had a very similar business model to yyy (supposedly a HYP share) would be unable to if it transpired that xxx had a dividend yield which fell outside arbitrary guidelines.


And why is that a problem? If you want to discuss a non 'HYP' share, do it somewhere else than on the HYP board. If that discussion stems from a post on the HYP board, maybe post a link on the board you want to discuss something not HYP and start a thread on a different board to continue and expand the discussion. This happens all the time on DAK etc and no-one seems to have any issue about it.

If you are complaining that the RNS are posted on HYP, there is nothing to stop you posting the RNS on another board as well. if you don't want to get up early and do the reasearch, you can even just pinch the link from the post on HYP.

Mel


Thank you Mel. You’re working hard today. :D

Ian.

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158952

Postby Raptor » August 12th, 2018, 12:37 pm

melonfool wrote:
Alaric wrote:
Walrus wrote: They often start a conversation, however seemingly because of where they are posted, comments related to the information are subject to a higher degree of moderation seems to be what I have gleaned from this whole set of messages.


That's exactly the point. Someone wishing to comment that xxx had a very similar business model to yyy (supposedly a HYP share) would be unable to if it transpired that xxx had a dividend yield which fell outside arbitrary guidelines.


And why is that a problem? If you want to discuss a non 'HYP' share, do it somewhere else than on the HYP board. If that discussion stems from a post on the HYP board, maybe post a link on the board you want to discuss something not HYP and start a thread on a different board to continue and expand the discussion. This happens all the time on DAK etc and no-one seems to have any issue about it.

If you are complaining that the RNS are posted on HYP, there is nothing to stop you posting the RNS on another board as well. if you don't want to get up early and do the reasearch, you can even just pinch the link from the post on HYP.

Mel


To be honest, there are a few posters who do this. If they see something in a thread, that they feel is better discussed elsewhere they create a new thread elsewhere (or even on same board) and link back to original thread for reference. That I believe is the way it should be, that way we keep the threads on topic as much as possible and stop them being "hijacked". Just a thought. This is not "rocket" science and should not be up to "mods" to decide if another thread is better for the posts (or another board for that matter). Mind you if reported by a poster, rather than going off topic, we will be happy to split, move, create links, lock threads etc. Onus I think is on posters to alert mods as I am sure that we do not all sit there waiting for a post to be added so we can "flex" our mod powers.

Raptor.

Decorating finished, lunch and then gardening.....

moorfield
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158954

Postby moorfield » August 12th, 2018, 12:42 pm

melonfool wrote: If *your* portfolio includes some low yielders (mine does) then those are not part of the HYP, either you split the portfolio (in name) or you accept it's not an HYP, but either way you don't raise those shares on the HYP board.


As does OLTB's (Unilever again) and he (or she) has done: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13022
(this was one of the threads that caused Dod's flounce IIRC).

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158955

Postby Wizard » August 12th, 2018, 12:49 pm

It seems to me that there are two very practical suggestions coming out of this very long thread.

1. For the many who have an issue with the narrow focus of the HYP Board simply stop posting there, instead post on the High Yield Shares and Strategies Board. Issues about being overly moderated or straying in to non-HYP areas of discussion are resolved. If Ian posts a link to an RNS on HYP practical and you want to discuss that share just copy the link and start a thread on High Yield Strategies and Shares.

2. Move HYP Practical towards the bottom of the list of Boards in the menu. Unless they know the history of those three little letters anyone new to TLF could never understand the specific nature of the investing approach and limitations on discussion associated with that board. I appreciate the guidelines are there, but I think it unrealistic to think every new poster will read those in advance of posting.

If this were to happen I think it would reduce moderation, allow a better discussion of broader income investing and allow the HYP community the specific board they want. It really does seem simple to me.

Terry.

melonfool
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158961

Postby melonfool » August 12th, 2018, 1:13 pm

moorfield wrote:
melonfool wrote: If *your* portfolio includes some low yielders (mine does) then those are not part of the HYP, either you split the portfolio (in name) or you accept it's not an HYP, but either way you don't raise those shares on the HYP board.


As does OLTB's (Unilever again) and he (or she) has done: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13022
(this was one of the threads that caused Dod's flounce IIRC).


I don't recall reading that thread at all and I can see no moderation on it. So no idea why anyone would 'flounce' over it.

I can't see anything from a quick glance about it being split, but that's fine, if it's been dealt with like that, it seems to work OK as that's a good thread.

Mel

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158962

Postby melonfool » August 12th, 2018, 1:16 pm

Wizard wrote:It seems to me that there are two very practical suggestions coming out of this very long thread.

1. For the many who have an issue with the narrow focus of the HYP Board simply stop posting there, instead post on the High Yield Shares and Strategies Board. Issues about being overly moderated or straying in to non-HYP areas of discussion are resolved. If Ian posts a link to an RNS on HYP practical and you want to discuss that share just copy the link and start a thread on High Yield Strategies and Shares.

2. Move HYP Practical towards the bottom of the list of Boards in the menu. Unless they know the history of those three little letters anyone new to TLF could never understand the specific nature of the investing approach and limitations on discussion associated with that board. I appreciate the guidelines are there, but I think it unrealistic to think every new poster will read those in advance of posting.

If this were to happen I think it would reduce moderation, allow a better discussion of broader income investing and allow the HYP community the specific board they want. It really does seem simple to me.

Terry.


:)

Exactly right.

Not that we mind new posters posting in the wrong place, and are happy to move threads we are alerted to, I'm not aware of any incidents of new user wandering in there and being jumped on, so all this talk of 'new users being confused' and 'flame wars' seems a bit strawman to me. I think we're quite nice to new users, though we don't actually get very many (another topic!).

But, you're right, the board description might benefit from a slight tweak, there is a warning in red at the top of the board, but moving it down the list would make sense. I'm in favour of a progression type of arrangement for the way the boards are listed there.

Mel

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158970

Postby PinkDalek » August 12th, 2018, 2:24 pm

melonfool wrote:If anyone can send me a list of the 'special' posters I am not supposed to moderate, that would be great, I must have missed that memo. ...


I vaguely recall that exchange but it was clearly tongue in cheek, maybe even by RedSturgeon, and part of the old ethos from elsewhere which included of "To … amuse".

I think he was replying to someone who'd asked if some posters are more special than others. He confirmed some might be but wasn't saying they have specific leeway from the Mods. No doubt you'd have noticed the [non-existent Memo] in the Mod Room and I very much doubt you would have missed it, had it existed.

Can anyone find the posts concerned, to educate and enrich us?

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158980

Postby PinkDalek » August 12th, 2018, 2:47 pm

PinkDalek wrote:Can anyone find the posts concerned, to educate and enrich us?


Found it and it wasn't RedSturgeon:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2975&p=29051&hilit=all+posters+are+not+equal#p29051

All posters are equal, but some are more equal than others, to paraphrase animal farm.

Educate, amuse and enrich.

tjh290633
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158982

Postby tjh290633 » August 12th, 2018, 2:49 pm

Alaric wrote:
melonfool wrote: I can say there is no such thing as a low-yielding HYP share.


In the wider world outside of TMF and TLF, there is no such thing as a HYP share.


Maybe not, but if you Google "High Yield Portfolio", the third and fourth items are articles on TMF. Then comes one from a Damian Cannon and one from Seeking Alpha before TLF is mentioned. I suspect that the first two are promoted entries and can be ignored.

The point about Mel's comment is that by definition a share with a low yield is not a candidate for inclusion in an HYP. Nevertheless shares which have qualified in the past, and which have been selected for inclusion in an HYP, may have lower yields for various reasons. Having a low yield does not mean compulsory expulsion from the portfolio.

TJH

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158986

Postby PinkDalek » August 12th, 2018, 2:59 pm

Hi
tjh290633 wrote:...


For those of us who haven't read Animal Farm, do you wish to expand on the quoted line a couple of posts up or down, depending on your settings.

The reason I ask is your Mod Box of old has been referred to (rather than quoted precisely in full) many a time since then, usually I think by Wizard, and it might assist if it were clarified.

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158992

Postby Raptor » August 12th, 2018, 3:16 pm

PinkDalek wrote:Hi
tjh290633 wrote:...


For those of us who haven't read Animal Farm, do you wish to expand on the quoted line a couple of posts up or down, depending on your settings.

The reason I ask is your Mod Box of old has been referred to (rather than quoted precisely in full) many a time since then, usually I think by Wizard, and it might assist if it were clarified.


"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Logically, this quote is nonsensical. To be equal means to be exactly the same, so there cannot be more or less equal. You are either equal or unequal. What it symbolizes is the open admission that the ideals of social justice and equality that inspired the animal's revolution will never come to fruition. Through all of Napoleon's previous transgressions, the animals held on to the hope that they could create the farm described by Old Major (Marx/Lenin). This line represents the moment they are forced to let go of that dream, and shows that Napoleon and the pigs have become just like the humans they overthrew. In this way, it defines the central thesis of the book--that the Soviet Union has abandoned the ideas that sparked its creation and adopted the oppression and tyranny of the government it replaced.


Having found this I am none the wiser and I did Animal Farm in English literature. George Orwell, started the Animal "revolution" with 7 commandments the 7th was "All animals are Equal", later I think it was Napoleon (the Pig) who replaced all of them with the "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Raptor, failed English at O level

idpickering
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158993

Postby idpickering » August 12th, 2018, 3:17 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
For those of us who haven't read Animal Farm, do you wish to expand on the quoted line a couple of posts up or down, depending on your settings.



I have read a number of George Orwell books, including Animal Farm, but this explains the above quote;


All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.


The ultimate example of the pigs’ systematic abuse of logic and language to control their underlings, this final reduction of the Seven Commandments, which appears in Chapter X, clothes utterly senseless content in a seemingly plausible linguistic form. Although the first clause implies that all animals are equal to one another, it does not state this claim overtly. Thus, it is possible to misread the word “equal” as a relative term rather than an absolute one, meaning that there can be different degrees of “equal”-ness, just as there can be different degrees of colorfulness, for example (more colorful, less colorful). Once such a misreading has taken place, it becomes no more absurd to say “more equal” than to say “more colorful.” By small, almost imperceptible steps like these, the core ideals of Animal Farm—and any human nation—gradually become corrupted.


http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/animalfarm/quotes/

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158996

Postby scotia » August 12th, 2018, 3:35 pm

At last! there is a run of postings on this thread concerning Animal Farm which educate, amuse and enrich. Can we delete all the others? And could we rename this thread - after all the original title was clearly inappropriate, given the return of the malcontent.

tjh290633
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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158998

Postby tjh290633 » August 12th, 2018, 3:38 pm

PinkDalek wrote:Hi
tjh290633 wrote:...


For those of us who haven't read Animal Farm, do you wish to expand on the quoted line a couple of posts up or down, depending on your settings.

The reason I ask is your Mod Box of old has been referred to (rather than quoted precisely in full) many a time since then, usually I think by Wizard, and it might assist if it were clarified.

Qué?

TJH.

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#158999

Postby PinkDalek » August 12th, 2018, 3:40 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
PinkDalek wrote:Hi
tjh290633 wrote:...


For those of us who haven't read Animal Farm, do you wish to expand on the quoted line a couple of posts up or down, depending on your settings.

The reason I ask is your Mod Box of old has been referred to (rather than quoted precisely in full) many a time since then, usually I think by Wizard, and it might assist if it were clarified.

Qué?

TJH.


From here viewtopic.php?p=158970#p158970 onwards should explain.

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#159004

Postby tjh290633 » August 12th, 2018, 4:02 pm

Oh dear. I have just castigated Wizard for doing something naughty. Then I noticed the date, 18 months ago. I must apologize to the lad.

TJH

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Re: Dod's farewell.

#159007

Postby melonfool » August 12th, 2018, 4:05 pm

I suspect Pink Dalek was asking the person who posted the quote to expand on what *they* meant when they posted it, not for people to do an English Literature-type analysis of George Orwell's words!

Mel


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