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Clicking on links

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
Howyoudoin
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Re: Clicking on links

#162920

Postby Howyoudoin » August 29th, 2018, 4:16 pm

swill453 wrote:
melonfool wrote:Exactly!

Or I go off down a rabbit hole and forget where I started and that it was a TLF/whatever post that got me there.

So how do you get on with Google search, where clicking on a link in the search results uses the same tab?

If anything is going to take you down a rabbit hole it's a Google search!

Scott.



(Mel will answer for herself i'm sure but if you want my opinion on this too . . . )

Google is the exception that proves the rule as I only ever use Google in order to get somewhere else, so no need to go back.

When I come to TLF I'm not (specifically) looking to be taken somewhere else, as I am with Google.

HYD

Lootman
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Re: Clicking on links

#162924

Postby Lootman » August 29th, 2018, 4:26 pm

This debate strikes me as one of those "how many pedants can dance on the head of a tadpole" discussions but, for what it is worth, I also do not want to depart my home or host site merely to pursue a link.

And whilst I am sure I can avoid that if I "right click this" whilst "depressing that key for 5 seconds" whilst singing something from West Side Story in my underwear, could we not instead just keep it simple?

swill453
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Re: Clicking on links

#162927

Postby swill453 » August 29th, 2018, 4:28 pm

Howyoudoin wrote:Google is the exception that proves the rule as I only ever use Google in order to get somewhere else, so no need to go back.

Google was one popular answer. Others include BBC News, Daily Mail, The Guardian...

Scott.

Watis
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Re: Clicking on links

#162929

Postby Watis » August 29th, 2018, 4:32 pm

But what if the first link you click turns out not to be what you're looking for, as is often the case?

I've got into the habit of CTRL-clicking several likely looking results and visiting each in turn without the need to go back to the Google search results to fetch the next likely candidate.

Watis

Howyoudoin
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Re: Clicking on links

#162933

Postby Howyoudoin » August 29th, 2018, 4:39 pm

swill453 wrote:
Howyoudoin wrote:Google is the exception that proves the rule as I only ever use Google in order to get somewhere else, so no need to go back.

Google was one popular answer. Others include BBC News, Daily Mail, The Guardian...

Scott.


Not sure I understand this one Scott. Aren't the links on the above just links to another part of the same website?


HYD

swill453
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Re: Clicking on links

#162938

Postby swill453 » August 29th, 2018, 4:48 pm

Howyoudoin wrote:Not sure I understand this one Scott. Aren't the links on the above just links to another part of the same website?

No, I mean where they link to an external site.

For example, the links to Sky News and the New York Times from this article in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... cave-diver

(and also external links I found on the BBC and the Daily Mail).

I'm not saying one way is right and one is wrong, just that there is literally no "convention". Both ways are used all over the web.

The site owners here have picked one way (or the software has defaulted to it), and I would say stick with it purely because it's been that way for the best part of two years and any change would lead to confusion.

Scott.

melonfool
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Re: Clicking on links

#162940

Postby melonfool » August 29th, 2018, 4:51 pm

swill453 wrote:
melonfool wrote:Exactly!

Or I go off down a rabbit hole and forget where I started and that it was a TLF/whatever post that got me there.

So how do you get on with Google search, where clicking on a link in the search results uses the same tab?

If anything is going to take you down a rabbit hole it's a Google search!

Scott.


Google search usually, in fact almost invariably, gives more than one result. So I right click and open the one/s I want to look at, retaining the result page in the first window.

In posts on message boards it is usually one or maybe two links I might want to click on. The two actions are not remotely similar.

I'm not an idiot, I know how the Internet works.

Mel

Howyoudoin
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Re: Clicking on links

#162942

Postby Howyoudoin » August 29th, 2018, 4:53 pm

swill453 wrote:
Howyoudoin wrote:Not sure I understand this one Scott. Aren't the links on the above just links to another part of the same website?

No, I mean where they link to an external site.

For example, the links to Sky News and the New York Times from this article in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... cave-diver

(and also external links I found on the BBC and the Daily Mail).

I'm not saying one way is right and one is wrong, just that there is literally no "convention". Both ways are used all over the web.

The site owners here have picked one way (or the software has defaulted to it), and I would say stick with it purely because it's been that way for the best part of two years and any change would lead to confusion.

Scott.


Seeing as there is not a large majority in favour of the switch, I'm inclined to agree with you Scott.

HYD

melonfool
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Re: Clicking on links

#162943

Postby melonfool » August 29th, 2018, 4:53 pm

swill453 wrote:
Howyoudoin wrote:Google is the exception that proves the rule as I only ever use Google in order to get somewhere else, so no need to go back.

Google was one popular answer. Others include BBC News, Daily Mail, The Guardian...

Scott.


The answer to that question, for me, is that they are equally as annoying as TLF.

Mel

gryffron
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Re: Clicking on links

#162960

Postby gryffron » August 29th, 2018, 5:33 pm

General web behaviour is that a link always opens in the current tab.

New windows have in the past been abused by advertisers sending you to pop-ups. For this reason, most modern browsers now block auto-opening or open-on-click new windows by default. (A fact which makes the Halifax share dealing website almost unusable). So even if LemonFool tried to implement pop-up windows for external links, it wouldn't work for most users.

There are numerous options to shortcut this.
Google has a user choice to open every link you click on in a new tab (if you're logged in)
Firefox, click with middle mouse button.
Most other browsers, right click. Most pads, long hold link.

Gryff

swill453
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Re: Clicking on links

#162962

Postby swill453 » August 29th, 2018, 5:49 pm

gryffron wrote:New windows have in the past been abused by advertisers sending you to pop-ups. For this reason, most modern browsers now block auto-opening or open-on-click new windows by default. (A fact which makes the Halifax share dealing website almost unusable). So even if LemonFool tried to implement pop-up windows for external links, it wouldn't work for most users.

We're not talking about pop-up windows here, or even new windows.

Merely new tabs.

Scott.

melonfool
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Re: Clicking on links

#162965

Postby melonfool » August 29th, 2018, 5:51 pm

I have pop up blockers Gryffon and have no problem at all using websites that open links as new tabs.

Mel

Gengulphus
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Re: Clicking on links

#162967

Postby Gengulphus » August 29th, 2018, 6:07 pm

melonfool wrote:But anyway, TLF is the only site I need to do it on. Other sites have it set up properly.

No, they have it set up in the way that you prefer, and that is also the way that forces me to use a much more cumbersome work-around than ctrl-click to get the way that I prefer. I usually want the link I'm clicking on to stay on the same page because I find having windows/tabs opened for me without my having asked for it disrupts my 'mental map' of what I've got going on my screen - after encountering a site that does it the way you call "properly", I've pretty often found myself with a bewildering array of open tabs that I need to take some time to close down before I can continue, taking care not to close down the ones I had originally and actually wanted.

And I also prefer it because I'm usually finished with the page I'm on before I click on. Sometimes I do indeed want a new window/tab, most usually because I've seen a link that I want to make certain I read, but only after I've finished what I'm currently reading, but that's uncommon enough that for me, ctrl-click for a new tab and click for staying in my current tab is clearly the right way around. I would be more sympathetic towards your preference if the way it was implemented was the other way around: if ctrl-click stayed in my current tab and click opened a new tab, it would be the wrong way around for me and the right way around for you, and I would reckon that it was best decided by a poll to see which the majority of the site's users prefer, with the losing side being mildly inconvenienced either way. But that's not how browsers work: because of the cumbersome work-around involved, those like me who prefer click to stay in the same tab would be much more inconvenienced by it being that way around, than those like you who prefer click to open a new tab are in convenience by it actually being that way around as things stand.

I strongly suspect that it's not a very feasible change anyway, as I don't see any sign of such a configuration option in the phpBB documentation. That means that it would have to be done by a phpBB extension, of which there are far too many for me to tackle the job of looking for a suitable one even if I wanted the change! But the general impression I've had from previous looks at the available extensions is that there's unlikely to be one - and indeed, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it wasn't possible to do it by an extension. It would in any case need someone quite familiar with phpBB extensions to do the job, and I can think of many other jobs I'd like such a person to do first, such as finding a way to streamline common moderator tasks... And because of my preference, I would strongly prefer the extension to be one that allows users a per-user configuration option to choose either the current behaviour or open-in-new-tab behaviour - that would be handling the issue properly!

One last point is that you ask earlier in the thread "Apart from anything else, why would TLF want to actively send users away, surely we want to keep people here?" My answer to that is that we need to consider all ways of sending users away - and when I do that with regard to myself, I find that a very good way for a site to drive me away is to let its own interests ride roughshod over mine. Its own interests will be dominant as far as the site is concerned, of course, but if its own interests include keeping me as a user, it needs to respect my interests... Basically, trying too hard to keep me on the site will result in me leaving permanently. And it's noticeable that few of the sites I use regularly use open-a-new-tab style links: not a conscious decision on my part, but they grate enough on me that it probably does enter into my "do I like this site enough to use it again?" decisions...

Gengulphus

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Re: Clicking on links

#162970

Postby Gengulphus » August 29th, 2018, 6:18 pm

Howyoudoin wrote:Seeing as there is not a large majority in favour of the switch, I'm inclined to agree with you Scott.

How on earth do you know anything significant about how the majority feels about such a change? The way to find out what the majority want is to poll them, not see who wants to discuss it the most!

Edit: But I'll add that the first step should probably be to ask stooz whether he'd be willing and able to implement it if the majority of users did turn out to want the change! If he's not, it's a non-starter, so no point in wasting everybody's time with it - and of course, that would mean that the only point of this thread would turn out to be that it may have told people about ways to get the behaviour they want that they weren't previously aware of...

Gengulphus

melonfool
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Re: Clicking on links

#162993

Postby melonfool » August 29th, 2018, 8:08 pm

Really Gengulphus - that was tongue-in-cheek - as I said, I do know how the Internet works.

:roll:

Mel

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Re: Clicking on links

#163056

Postby Gengulphus » August 30th, 2018, 12:57 am

melonfool wrote:Really Gengulphus - that was tongue-in-cheek - as I said, I do know how the Internet works.

And I was not trying to tell you about how the internet works, but about my preferences and why, as things are, I don't think your preferences should override mine. Which are things I don't think you or any other reader here already knew, as it was my first contribution to the thread, and I don't even remember ever having expressed any views on the matter on TLF before - or indeed on TMF. (My memory on that might be faulty, of course, so maybe a few readers here already knew - but I doubt it.)

The reasons for my preferences and belief that yours shouldn't override them do depend on some aspects of how browsers work and so cannot be given without at least briefly describing those aspects, but I think I kept those descriptions pretty minimal and to the point. And I did write them with all the readers of the board in mind, not just you: some may be less knowledgeable than you.

Frankly, if anyone should be saying "Really!", I think it's me about what looks very much like an attempt to dismiss my views on the subject without actually addressing them.

Gengulphus

Howyoudoin
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Re: Clicking on links

#163102

Postby Howyoudoin » August 30th, 2018, 9:41 am

Gengulphus wrote:
Howyoudoin wrote:Seeing as there is not a large majority in favour of the switch, I'm inclined to agree with you Scott.

How on earth do you know anything significant about how the majority feels about such a change? The way to find out what the majority want is to poll them, not see who wants to discuss it the most!

Gengulphus



Wow, someone got out of bed the wrong side.

Just when I thought I was conceding defeat, someone comes along and says "You're not conceding defeat that easily!"

Well I am, so there.

HYD

Gengulphus
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Re: Clicking on links

#163139

Postby Gengulphus » August 30th, 2018, 11:51 am

Howyoudoin wrote:Just when I thought I was conceding defeat, someone comes along and says "You're not conceding defeat that easily!"

That's because of the flip side - I don't want people claiming victory that easily either! ;-)

Gengulphus

taylor20
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Re: Clicking on links

#163145

Postby taylor20 » August 30th, 2018, 12:40 pm

Seems this is much easier to address in the browser, since it is impossible for the site designer to know who wants which links to open in a new window/tab or not.

Not surprisingly there are a whole bunch of browser extensions to force external links to open in a new tab, e.g. this one for Chrome:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/opens-external-links-in-a/dmcplcjakmobkeanofhphpjecbpjicka?hl=en

There are also plugins to do the opposite, e.g. this one for chrome:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/death-to-blank/gneobebnilffgkejpfhlgkmpkipgbcno?hl=en

Disclaimer: I have not tried either!

stooz
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Re: Clicking on links

#163239

Postby stooz » August 30th, 2018, 8:59 pm

The single click approach is to use your mouse's wheel. clicking the wheel on a link opens it in a new tab. one click.


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