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Introducing the LemonFools Personal Finance Calculators

Deleted thread

Pull up a chair, have a biscuit - discuss the site and general questions about the LemonFool
Gengulphus
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Re: Deleted thread

#183919

Postby Gengulphus » November 30th, 2018, 10:04 am

Lootman wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:My underlying point being that "the right to be forgotten" is an informal, none-too-precise description of the rights defined in the legislation. If someone's posts have impressed me enough, I'll remember them no matter how much they try to insist on their 'right to be forgotten' - indeed, the more they try to insist on it, the longer my memory of them is likely to persist!

I think the idea of wanting all of your posts removed is not to eradicate the memory of you in the minds of the universe. That would be hard to achieve as a matter of biology. But rather to remove the documentary record of what you wrote.

It seems that we agree that "the right to be forgotten" isn't an accurate description, though it does have the merit of being reasonably concise. One that would be more accurate would be "the right to have unwanted documentary evidence about oneself destroyed (subject to various restrictions)", but I very much doubt that it would catch on, due to its lack of conciseness! And there is also the aspect that "destroying evidence" and "being forgotten" are liable to provoke different gut reactions in people, that might just have influenced proponents of the measure in choosing how to describe it... :-}

Lootman wrote:I notice from your profile that you have never thanked another Lemon. ...

Not quite - what you're able to notice from my profile is that I've never used the 'thanking' feature (often known inaccurately as 'reccing') of the TLF software, or even more precisely that I've never used it and not subsequently retracted my use (IIRC, I have actually inadvertently clicked the 'thumbs up" button once or twice, and corrected the mistake fairly shortly afterwards). Whether I've thanked other Lemons is a different question, the answer to which is that I have.

Lootman wrote:... Does that indicate that you being "impressed" with another's post is a rather rare and special event? :D

Taking that to be about what you are actually capable of having noticed, no, it doesn't indicate that I've never been impressed enough by another's post to want to take appropriate action - I have been, but not actually taken such action because the site doesn't provide any feature that allows me to take action I consider appropriate. (I wrote down my reasons for not considering the 'thanking' feature appropriate in the thread introducing it a bit over 18 months ago, most especially in this post. They haven't changed, and just to be clear, I'm only giving those links in case anyone wants to know what my reasons are. I won't discuss them (beyond that simple statement that they haven't changed) in this thread, as such discussion would go well off the thread's topic, and have no wish to start such a discussion in a new thread - but might respond if anyone starts a new thread on the feature and I feel I have anything I want to say about it.)

Gengulphus

Gengulphus
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Re: Deleted thread

#183935

Postby Gengulphus » November 30th, 2018, 10:58 am

Lootman wrote:And you can. I joined TMF in 1998 and was a pretty active poster until around 2001. Then I barely posted for a decade, whereupon I returned and started posting again. What was interesting was that there was hardly anyone on TMF in 2011 that I could remember from back in the early days. And I didn't get responses indicating that anyone remembered me either.

Now at that time someone could look up my profile and posts to learn about me if they wanted. But if they had been removed then I doubt that anyone would have noticed or cared. It's only been 2 years since TMF went away and my recall of the folks there is already hazy.

Just for the record: I remembered you very clearly when you reappeared on TLF in November 2016, despite you having disappeared from TMF some years earlier. And I also remember trying to find early posts by you when you referred back then to having been around for a long time, without success - and I was quite competent enough at using the TMF site to look at your profile and use the 'first post' link!

I don't doubt your statement about having joined TMF in 1998, as accounts on the UK and US TMF sites were linked together back then and your joining in 1998 is still recorded on https://boards.fool.com/profile/lootman/info.aspx. But it does mean that either your clear memory of having posted in 1998-2001 is wrong, or my clear memory of having failed to find early posts of yours is wrong, or something had happened or been done to the UK TMF site that meant the record of your early posts had gone. My money's on the last of those, but also on it being impossible to make any progress on the question of which it is now that the UK TMF boards are gone.

Gengulphus

Clariman
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Re: Deleted thread

#183941

Postby Clariman » November 30th, 2018, 11:32 am

Lootman wrote: Clariman says posts are removed manually. I have made over 4,000 posts. How long would that take him?

That is not 100% correct. Perhaps what I wrote was not clear. A user's ID and posts can be removed in their entirety in a straightforward way. Where it becomes manual, is checking everywhere that the user was either mentioned or their posts were quoted. That is labour intensive. Also if one then tries to make individual threads coherent with the absence of the deleted posts, that isn't at all practical.

Hope that clarifies
Clariman

Raptor
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Re: Deleted thread

#183978

Postby Raptor » November 30th, 2018, 1:48 pm

The manual side of this can be described as on the 3 boards I have mod rights too, Clarimans exercise removed 120 "hits" of 208. The rest where either quotes or his name being mentioned, that means going through everyone and either adding a mod box or a small edit. No idea how many "hits" there was on all forums though.

Raptor.

Lootman
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Re: Deleted thread

#183981

Postby Lootman » November 30th, 2018, 1:59 pm

Clariman wrote:
Lootman wrote: Clariman says posts are removed manually. I have made over 4,000 posts. How long would that take him?

That is not 100% correct. Perhaps what I wrote was not clear. A user's ID and posts can be removed in their entirety in a straightforward way. Where it becomes manual, is checking everywhere that the user was either mentioned or their posts were quoted. That is labour intensive. Also if one then tries to make individual threads coherent with the absence of the deleted posts, that isn't at all practical.

Ah, I see. It never crossed my mind that you would attempt to remove every mention of a particular Lemon. Was that what the person here was asking for? That seems excessive to me.

In your position I would only regard myself as responsible for removing a Lemon's profile and his/her posts. The rest sounds like far too much work, absent a compelling reason to do it.

kiloran
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Re: Deleted thread

#183993

Postby kiloran » November 30th, 2018, 2:57 pm

I hesitate to add more confusion, but if it is such an issue to delete all references to a user, would it be possible to leave everything in place but change the username with a mass find-and-replace process? From, for example, "kiloran" to "Ex-Userxxx" where xxx is just a serial number?

Might be easier, would maintain thread continuity and provide a degree of anonymity for the ex-user.

--kiloran

melonfool
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Re: Deleted thread

#183998

Postby melonfool » November 30th, 2018, 3:15 pm

Lootman wrote:
Clariman wrote:
Lootman wrote: Clariman says posts are removed manually. I have made over 4,000 posts. How long would that take him?

That is not 100% correct. Perhaps what I wrote was not clear. A user's ID and posts can be removed in their entirety in a straightforward way. Where it becomes manual, is checking everywhere that the user was either mentioned or their posts were quoted. That is labour intensive. Also if one then tries to make individual threads coherent with the absence of the deleted posts, that isn't at all practical.

Ah, I see. It never crossed my mind that you would attempt to remove every mention of a particular Lemon. Was that what the person here was asking for? That seems excessive to me.

In your position I would only regard myself as responsible for removing a Lemon's profile and his/her posts. The rest sounds like far too much work, absent a compelling reason to do it.


A previous posted requested (polite word for it) that every post and every quote and every mention of them was removed. We complied.

Mel

melonfool
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Re: Deleted thread

#184000

Postby melonfool » November 30th, 2018, 3:16 pm

kiloran wrote:I hesitate to add more confusion, but if it is such an issue to delete all references to a user, would it be possible to leave everything in place but change the username with a mass find-and-replace process? From, for example, "kiloran" to "Ex-Userxxx" where xxx is just a serial number?

Might be easier, would maintain thread continuity and provide a degree of anonymity for the ex-user.

--kiloran


I was wondering that too, at the very least for the quotes.

Mel

Gengulphus
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Re: Deleted thread

#184014

Postby Gengulphus » November 30th, 2018, 3:50 pm

kiloran wrote:I hesitate to add more confusion, but if it is such an issue to delete all references to a user, would it be possible to leave everything in place but change the username with a mass find-and-replace process? From, for example, "kiloran" to "Ex-Userxxx" where xxx is just a serial number?

Might be easier, would maintain thread continuity and provide a degree of anonymity for the ex-user.

Possible in theory for most users, but I rather doubt that the phpBB software that TLF uses has such a mass find-and-replace feature. And it wouldn't work well for some users because their username is no more than a reasonably common name or word that could have been used in a way that doesn't actually refer to them. Looking down the list of those who have posted most frequently on TLF, I see for example that the first page contains "Alaric" and "beeswax" (*). The next page contains "Raptor", "Wizard" and "gryffon", the third page none, the fourth page "Sorcery", "Julian", "Satsuma" and "colin", so 9 out of the 100 users I've looked at - a small but not totally negligible percentage.

(*) And even "Gengulphus" is a real-life name that could come up in another context, though by no means likely to do so - the only two uses of it that I can remember encountering are a variant spelling of the name of a Catholic saint and the middle name of a fictional character.

Gengulphus

kiloran
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Re: Deleted thread

#184015

Postby kiloran » November 30th, 2018, 3:58 pm

Gengulphus wrote:
kiloran wrote:I hesitate to add more confusion, but if it is such an issue to delete all references to a user, would it be possible to leave everything in place but change the username with a mass find-and-replace process? From, for example, "kiloran" to "Ex-Userxxx" where xxx is just a serial number?

Might be easier, would maintain thread continuity and provide a degree of anonymity for the ex-user.

Possible in theory for most users, but I rather doubt that the phpBB software that TLF uses has such a mass find-and-replace feature. And it wouldn't work well for some users because their username is no more than a reasonably common name or word that could have been used in a way that doesn't actually refer to them. Looking down the list of those who have posted most frequently on TLF, I see for example that the first page contains "Alaric" and "beeswax" (*). The next page contains "Raptor", "Wizard" and "gryffon", the third page none, the fourth page "Sorcery", "Julian", "Satsuma" and "colin", so 9 out of the 100 users I've looked at - a small but not totally negligible percentage.

(*) And even "Gengulphus" is a real-life name that could come up in another context, though by no means likely to do so - the only two uses of it that I can remember encountering are a variant spelling of the name of a Catholic saint and the middle name of a fictional character.

Gengulphus

True, but we could be a little more refined to change quotes, so a mass find-replace [quote='kiloran'] to [quote='ex-userxxx']. Or "kiloran wrote:" to "ex-userxxx wrote:"

I guess Stooz will know what can or cannot be done if this suggestion is deemed to be attractive in principle

--kiloran

PinkDalek
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Re: Deleted thread

#184022

Postby PinkDalek » November 30th, 2018, 4:15 pm

kiloran wrote:True, but we could be a little more refined to change quotes, so a mass find-replace [quote='kiloran'] to [quote='ex-userxxx']. Or "kiloran wrote:" to "ex-userxxx wrote:"



In your case it could be ex-user u=69. ;)

Gengulphus
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Re: Deleted thread

#184044

Postby Gengulphus » November 30th, 2018, 5:59 pm

kiloran wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:... And it wouldn't work well for some users because their username is no more than a reasonably common name or word that could have been used in a way that doesn't actually refer to them. Looking down the list of those who have posted most frequently on TLF, I see for example that the first page contains "Alaric" and "beeswax" (*). The next page contains "Raptor", "Wizard" and "gryffon", the third page none, the fourth page "Sorcery", "Julian", "Satsuma" and "colin", so 9 out of the 100 users I've looked at - a small but not totally negligible percentage.

True, but we could be a little more refined to change quotes, so a mass find-replace [quote='kiloran'] to [quote='ex-userxxx']. Or "kiloran wrote:" to "ex-userxxx wrote:"

Quotes done using the quote tags, agreed. But plenty of people do them other ways, either all the time or sometimes. For instance, I sometimes find a quote done using the quote tags simply too disruptive to the flow of what I'm writing or that its prominence overemphasises the importance of the quote, and instead put it between quotation marks (and often in italics).

I.e. if the aim is to get rid of a lot of the times a user has been quoted, it will do that job. But if there is a legal requirement to get rid of all of them, it won't do that job.

Gengulphus

Lootman
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Re: Deleted thread

#184046

Postby Lootman » November 30th, 2018, 6:11 pm

Gengulphus wrote:Quotes done using the quote tags, agreed. But plenty of people do them other ways, either all the time or sometimes. For instance, I sometimes find a quote done using the quote tags simply too disruptive to the flow of what I'm writing or that its prominence overemphasises the importance of the quote, and instead put it between quotation marks (and often in italics).

Some people like to quote others using the quote tags but omit the name of the person being quoted. That's annoying because it means I don't get a notification when I am being quoted or replied to. (Or perhaps that is deliberate and a tad snide). Such quotes would be very difficult to detect and remove. That said I can't imagine a request to remove those would be in any way reasonable.

XFool
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Re: Deleted thread

#184188

Postby XFool » December 1st, 2018, 5:10 pm

Are we allowed to ask, merely out of curiosity, the username of the person concerned here?

Is it in anyway related to the person who, earlier in the year outed themselves as a self confessed Troll?

Lootman
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Re: Deleted thread

#184191

Postby Lootman » December 1st, 2018, 5:19 pm

XFool wrote:Are we allowed to ask, merely out of curiosity, the username of the person concerned here?

If he or she were named, presumably that post would then have to be immediately deleted.

XFool
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Re: Deleted thread

#184193

Postby XFool » December 1st, 2018, 5:22 pm

Gengulphus wrote:Looking down the list of those who have posted most frequently on TLF...

That's interesting.

Oh dear, I feel far too high up on that list for my comfort. Also, there is a very long tail to the posting distribution, you have to get to page 73 before zero posters first appear. Yet it goes on to page 154.

Gengulphus wrote:(*) And even "Gengulphus" is a real-life name that could come up in another context, though by no means likely to do so - the only two uses of it that I can remember encountering are a variant spelling of the name of a Catholic saint and the middle name of a fictional character.

Aha! ;)

PinkDalek
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Re: Deleted thread

#184206

Postby PinkDalek » December 1st, 2018, 6:10 pm

XFool wrote:Is it in anyway related to the person who, earlier in the year outed themselves as a self confessed Troll?


That wasn’t the precise wording used but there’s no indication the subject of this thread is/was the same poster. They moved in different circles.

PinkDalek
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Re: Deleted thread

#184208

Postby PinkDalek » December 1st, 2018, 6:16 pm

XFool wrote:Oh dear, I feel far too high up on that list for my comfort.


Try this one for size:

app.php/thankslist?sk=f&sd=a ;)

XFool
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Re: Deleted thread

#184215

Postby XFool » December 1st, 2018, 6:54 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
XFool wrote:Oh dear, I feel far too high up on that list for my comfort.

Try this one for size:

app.php/thankslist?sk=f&sd=a ;)

Gee! Thanks, PD.

Anyway, I'm an acquired taste... :)

PinkDalek
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Re: Deleted thread

#184216

Postby PinkDalek » December 1st, 2018, 7:24 pm

XFool wrote:
PinkDalek wrote:
XFool wrote:Oh dear, I feel far too high up on that list for my comfort.

Try this one for size:

app.php/thankslist?sk=f&sd=a ;)


Gee! Thanks, PD.

Anyway, I'm an acquired taste... :)


I think you misread the intention of the list I provided (the middle one I think it was - starting with 1s).


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