HYP Practical Board - Company News items allowed

[IanTHughes]

With regard to:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16964&p=210658#p210658

First of all, I should like to thank TLF for setting up a dedicated board for company news. This has meant a sharp reduction in the number of posts on the HYP Practical board of items of company news that could not in all honesty be said to be of interest to the average HYPer, whether already a holder of the shares in question or not.

However the current restriction on the HYP Practical board to only those news items containing "results", "corporate actions" and "dividends", is I believe too restrictive. There are other items of news that are of great interest and even importance to an HYPer. Trading Updates and Profit Warnings are two that spring immediately to my mind, but there may be others too.

Anyway, I thought I would bring it to TLF's attention and hopefully a sensible discussion on here can help us determine more exactly what items should be allowed, even encouraged, on the HYP Practical board and, conversely, what items should be properly discouraged.


Ian

[Itsallaguess]

However the current restriction on the HYP Practical board to only those news items containing "results", "corporate actions" and "dividends", is I believe too restrictive. There are other items of news that are of great interest and even importance to an HYPer. Trading Updates and Profit Warnings are two that spring immediately to my mind, but there may be others too.

The idea behind the Company News board was to keep meandering discussions regarding non-core HYP news away from the HYP Practical board. I personally think that it's been a great success in fulfilling that primary goal.

If there is an item of news that falls outside the current HYP Practical news-remit, then there is nothing to stop someone posting about it on the Company News board, and then providing a cross-link notification post on the HYP Practical board, which will bring the news item to the attention of the HYP Practical readership, but, importantly, will still allow discussion of it to remain on the Company News board, where a more wide-ranging discussion can take place that might well fall outside the discussion-remit of the HYP Practical board if it were to take place there.

The above seems like a good compromise to me....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[idpickering]

With regard to:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16964&p=210658#p210658

First of all, I should like to thank TLF for setting up a dedicated board for company news. This has meant a sharp reduction in the number of posts on the HYP Practical board of items of company news that could not in all honesty be said to be of interest to the average HYPer, whether already a holder of the shares in question or not.

However the current restriction on the HYP Practical board to only those news items containing "results", "corporate actions" and "dividends", is I believe too restrictive. There are other items of news that are of great interest and even importance to an HYPer. Trading Updates and Profit Warnings are two that spring immediately to my mind, but there may be others too.

Anyway, I thought I would bring it to TLF's attention and hopefully a sensible discussion on here can help us determine more exactly what items should be allowed, even encouraged, on the HYP Practical board and, conversely, what items should be properly discouraged.


Ian

Thanks for putting this item up Ian. I for one, was gobsmacked at the hijacking of my opening post in the above thread. Not impressed. A trading statement is news worthy of discussion on HYP Practical IMHO.

Ian.

[Alaric]

A trading statement is news worthy of discussion on HYP Practical IMHO.

Those who don't follow or believe in the HYP strategy as enforced on HYP Practical would prefer to see such discussions elsewhere. There's rather less danger of someone taking offence and having posts deleted.

[idpickering]

A trading statement is news worthy of discussion on HYP Practical IMHO.

Those who don't follow or believe in the HYP strategy as enforced on HYP Practical would prefer to see such discussions elsewhere. There's rather less danger of someone taking offence and having posts deleted.

Thanks for your input Alaric. I respect your point of view, but have my own too.

Ian.

[IanTHughes]

However the current restriction on the HYP Practical board to only those news items containing "results", "corporate actions" and "dividends", is I believe too restrictive. There are other items of news that are of great interest and even importance to an HYPer. Trading Updates and Profit Warnings are two that spring immediately to my mind, but there may be others too.

The idea behind the Company News board was to keep meandering discussions regarding non-core HYP news away from the HYP Practical board. I personally think that it's been a great success in fulfilling that primary goal.

As I said, I whole-heartedly agree with regard to those items of "non-core HYP news". However, "Trading Updates" and "Profit Warnings" do not qualify as "non-core HYP news" items, in my view.

If there is an item of news that falls outside the current HYP Practical news-remit, then there is nothing to stop someone posting about it on the Company News board, and then providing a cross-link notification post on the HYP Practical board, which will bring the news item to the attention of the HYP Practical readership, but, importantly, will still allow discussion of it to remain on the Company News board, where a more wide-ranging discussion can take place that might well fall outside the discussion-remit of the HYP Practical board if it were to take place there.

The above seems like a good compromise to me....

Well of course that is true. Mind you, the same could also be said about any item of news, including those that are currently allowed on HYP Practical, and yet they are allowed nonetheless. Furthermore if a non-HYPer is interested and wants the item discussed outside the remit of HYP Practical, there is nothing to stop a separate thread being placed on the Company News board, or anywhere else for that matter.

Just because it is possible to do as you say is not in my view a good enough reason to forbid a dedicated HYP Practical thread, with the news item attached.


Ian

[IanTHughes]

A trading statement is news worthy of discussion on HYP Practical IMHO.

Those who don't follow or believe in the HYP strategy as enforced on HYP Practical would prefer to see such discussions elsewhere.

So? No-one is being forced to go on the HYP board if they do not want to. Anyone who would "prefer to see such discussions elsewhere" should simply start a separate thread on another board. This new thread can either contain a link to the thread on the HYP Practical board, or maybe a separate, discrete link to the same news item. How hard is that? The fact that in general this does not happen, suggests to me that no-one outside of the HYP world wants to discuss the item.


Ian

[Dod101]

I agree with ITH in this matter. Trading Statements will often contain profits warnings for instance. In fact to a large extent I think that is their main value and purpose; to avoid surprises when the half yearly or annual figures are released, so to remove these from the HYP Practical Board is I think, mistaken. It is not like an obscure cancer drug for instance, going through stage 2.5 with the FDA.

Still, there is not a lot of point in our talking to ourselves. Maybe MDW, who removed the offending post, would care to comment, and, if he is persuaded by this discussion, to reinstate the post.

Dod

[IanTHughes]

I agree with ITH in this matter.

Oh my God! A "Thank You" to Dod101, what is the world coming to?


Ian

[daveh]

I've been putting HYP companies trading statements on the Company board so far, but if a trading statement contained a profits warning or dividend announcement (companies who pay qtrly often include the dividend announcement in a qtryly trading statement) I'd have posted on the HYP practical board. Personally I wouldn't have worried either way (ie post on HYP practical and link to it from Companies board or vice versa) and wouldn't have bothered modding it in the case of IDP's post.


I like the Companies board for the none-core Hyp news, but as I've said I wouldn't have worried about a trading statement appearing on HYP-practical.

[MDW1954]

I agree with ITH in this matter. Trading Statements will often contain profits warnings for instance. In fact to a large extent I think that is their main value and purpose; to avoid surprises when the half yearly or annual figures are released, so to remove these from the HYP Practical Board is I think, mistaken. It is not like an obscure cancer drug for instance, going through stage 2.5 with the FDA.

Still, there is not a lot of point in our talking to ourselves. Maybe MDW, who removed the offending post, would care to comment, and, if he is persuaded by this discussion, to reinstate the post.

Dod

Apologies for the radio silence -- I have been otherwise engaged for most of the day.

Twice this week, user daveh has posted on HYP Practical to say that trading updates were on the Company News board. The shares in question were UU and PNN, and I thought that that approach had worked well. HYPers could see that trading updates had been published, but didn't need to waste time looking any further if not interested.

It seemed a logical extension to do the same with IMB. I can think of no a priori reason why PNN and UU updates should be posted on one board, and IMB on another. Having developed a board for company news, it seems sensible to put company news on it.

This is not "hijacking".

Moreover, as Itsallaguess has pointed out, this is perfectly in keeping with the posted guidelines.

ITH raises a pertinent point, though: what about profit warnings? I take issue with your statement, Dod, that trading updates "often" contain profit warnings. That is not true of the HYP shares in which I invest, anyway, and I doubt that your experience is materially different, having had the benefit of reviewing your HYP.

Nevertheless, it may be appropriate for us to amend the guidelines so as to include profit warnings. Please make representations if you think that this should happen.

As things stand, I plan on leaving the relocated post where it is.

MDW1954

[Dod101]

Thanks for the reply MDW.

Profit warnings are not a common occurrence but if there are to be any, I would suggest that they usually will appear in a pre close trading statement so as to avoid surprises in the final or interim announcement. That is what I meant to say not that they are a common occurrence in a trading statement. It would make no sense to have to scan trading statements to check as to whether they contain a profit warning and if so post on the HYP Practical Board. In many ways it is as important to scan to ensure there are no profit warnings.

I am sorry to say that I think the new practice makes no sense and is a definite loss to the HYP Practical Board

Dod

[idpickering]

As things stand, I plan on leaving the relocated post where it is.

MDW1954

Fair enough. Now I know where I stand. A quick pm from you regarding your actions/thoughts would've been appreciated. To have one's post just disappear without explanation is IMHO offensive.

Ian.

[MDW1954]

As things stand, I plan on leaving the relocated post where it is.

MDW1954

Fair enough. Now I know where I stand. A quick pm from you regarding your actions/thoughts would've been appreciated. To have one's post just disappear without explanation is IMHO offensive.

Ian.

It didn't disappear without explanation. A message on HYP made it very clear where it had gone, although -- I accept -- not why it had gone.

MDW1954

[idpickering]

It didn't disappear without explanation. A message on HYP made it very clear where it had gone, although -- I accept -- not why it had gone.

MDW1954

Thank you for your reply. Let's leave it at that. I'll think twice before I post on these boards again.

Ian.

[IanTHughes]

Having developed a board for company news, it seems sensible to put company news on it.

Sure, but no-one is saying that an item cannot be posted on the Company News board, nor anywhere else for that matter, but why does that mean that the same link cannot also be posted on the HYP Practical board?

One is allowed, on the HYP Practical board, to post a link to a separate post on the Company News board, which contains a link to a news item. Why not simply allow the link to the news item on the HYP Practical board? I mean either the news item is a relevant topic for HYP Practical, or it is not. The thread is allowed, which must therefore mean the topic is relevant to HYP Practical. If it is a relevant topic, the direct link should be allowed on the HYP Practical board.

I have to say that the current restrictions, have more than a whiff of Gulliveresque absurdity about them in my opinion.


Ian

[Walrus]

I agree with ITH in this matter.

Oh my God! A "Thank You" to Dod101, what is the world coming to?


Ian

Haha I don't think I've agreed with you ITH on anything other than buying VOD, but I'm with you here

[MDW1954]

Having developed a board for company news, it seems sensible to put company news on it.

Sure, but no-one is saying that an item cannot be posted on the Company News board, nor anywhere else for that matter, but why does that mean that the same link cannot also be posted on the HYP Practical board?

One is allowed, on the HYP Practical board, to post a link to a separate post on the Company News board, which contains a link to a news item. Why not simply allow the link to the news item on the HYP Practical board? I mean either the news item is a relevant topic for HYP Practical, or it is not. The thread is allowed, which must therefore mean the topic is relevant to HYP Practical. If it is a relevant topic, the direct link should be allowed on the HYP Practical board.

I have to say that the current restrictions, have more than a whiff of Gulliveresque absurdity about them in my opinion.


Ian

IanTHughes,

I am not sure that you are following what Itsallaguess and I are saying. No one is saying that direct links to the Company News board aren't allowed on HYP Practical. Itsallaguess's post of 12:48pm explicitly says this is OK.

If it helps, here's how this could have played out:

1) IDpickering posts link to trading statement on Company News boards, and briefly summarises it.

2) He (or anyone else, for that matter) then posts something on HYP pointing to that post, if they feel like it, and says something like: "These IMB results look OK for now, but for how long can IMB continue to strip out costs and rationalise its global brands? Should HYPers be nervous about continued dividend growth over the short to medium term term?" This post doesn't simply regurgitate the trading statement, but raises HYP-specific about it. Note the reference there to HYP-specific!

3) Everyone piles in for a discussion.

That would all have been fine. Nothing Gulliveresque about that, and perfectly straightforward.

And in answer to your earlier point, I suspect that profit warnings will be added to the guidelines, based on moderation opinion as of earlier this evening.

MDW1954

[IanTHughes]

One is allowed, on the HYP Practical board, to post a link to a separate post on the Company News board, which contains a link to a news item. Why not simply allow the link to the news item on the HYP Practical board? I mean either the news item is a relevant topic for HYP Practical, or it is not. The thread is allowed, which must therefore mean the topic is relevant to HYP Practical. If it is a relevant topic, the direct link should be allowed on the HYP Practical board.

I have to say that the current restrictions, have more than a whiff of Gulliveresque absurdity about them in my opinion.

I am not sure that you are following what Itsallaguess and I are saying. No one is saying that direct links to the Company News board aren't allowed on HYP Practical. Itsallaguess's post of 12:48pm explicitly says this is OK.

I know that, in fact that is what I said - see the red above. My question is why can the link to the news item itself not be posted directly on the HYP Practical board? If someone wishes to read for themselves the whole news item, why do they first have to go to the Company News board to find the link? Especially when the news item in question is, in my opinion, relevant to an HYPer, certainly if one is pondering a possible purchase?

If it helps, here's how this could have played out:

1) IDpickering posts link to trading statement on Company News boards, and briefly summarises it.

2) He (or anyone else, for that matter) then posts something on HYP pointing to that post, if they feel like it, and says something like: "These IMB results look OK for now, but for how long can IMB continue to strip out costs and rationalise its global brands? Should HYPers be nervous about continued dividend growth over the short to medium term term?" This post doesn't simply regurgitate the trading statement, but raises HYP-specific about it. Note the reference there to HYP-specific!

3) Everyone piles in for a discussion.

That would all have been fine. Nothing Gulliveresque about that, and perfectly straightforward.

Change to:

1) IDpickering posts link to trading statement on HYP Practical board, and briefly summarises it.

2) ….

3) ….

and you have it in my view.

As I also said above, if the news item is not relevant to HYP Practical, the whole thread should be closed/moved, or otherwise moderated, as not suitable for discussion on HYP Practical at all, irrespective of any link to the Company News board or wherever. However, in my opinion, Trading Updates for HYP shares, however they are defined, are perfectly valid topics for HYP Practical, they should not be closed/moved and, if a thread/discussion is considered valid for HYP Practical, a direct link to the Trading Update news item itself should be allowed on HYP Practical. I hope that is clearer?


Anyway, thank you for engaging in this discussion


Ian

[MDW1954]

One is allowed, on the HYP Practical board, to post a link to a separate post on the Company News board, which contains a link to a news item. Why not simply allow the link to the news item on the HYP Practical board? I mean either the news item is a relevant topic for HYP Practical, or it is not. The thread is allowed, which must therefore mean the topic is relevant to HYP Practical. If it is a relevant topic, the direct link should be allowed on the HYP Practical board.

I have to say that the current restrictions, have more than a whiff of Gulliveresque absurdity about them in my opinion.

I am not sure that you are following what Itsallaguess and I are saying. No one is saying that direct links to the Company News board aren't allowed on HYP Practical. Itsallaguess's post of 12:48pm explicitly says this is OK.

I know that, in fact that is what I said - see the red above. My question is why can the link to the news item itself not be posted directly on the HYP Practical board? If someone wishes to read for themselves the whole news item, why do they first have to go to the Company News board to find the link? Especially when the news item in question is, in my opinion, relevant to an HYPer, certainly if one is pondering a possible purchase?

If it helps, here's how this could have played out:

1) IDpickering posts link to trading statement on Company News boards, and briefly summarises it.

2) He (or anyone else, for that matter) then posts something on HYP pointing to that post, if they feel like it, and says something like: "These IMB results look OK for now, but for how long can IMB continue to strip out costs and rationalise its global brands? Should HYPers be nervous about continued dividend growth over the short to medium term term?" This post doesn't simply regurgitate the trading statement, but raises HYP-specific about it. Note the reference there to HYP-specific!

3) Everyone piles in for a discussion.

That would all have been fine. Nothing Gulliveresque about that, and perfectly straightforward.

Change to:

1) IDpickering posts link to trading statement on HYP Practical board, and briefly summarises it.

2) ….

3) ….

and you have it in my view.

As I also said above, if the news item is not relevant to HYP Practical, the whole thread should be closed/moved, or otherwise moderated, as not suitable for discussion on HYP Practical at all, irrespective of any link to the Company News board or wherever. However, in my opinion, Trading Updates are a perfectly valid topic for HYP Practical, they should not be closed/moved and, if a thread/discussion is considered valid for HYP Practical, a direct link to the Trading Update news item itself should be allowed. I hope that is clearer?


Anyway, thank you for engaging in this discussion


Ian

Not all trading statement posts will attract comment and discussion. It is important, to avoid clogging up the HYP Practical board, that initial posts are posted on Company News, where other (non-HYPer) TLF users might also see them. Otherwise, we are mostly back to where we were. It is quite permissible to post a brief announcement on HYP Practical saying that the details of the trading statement have been posted on Company News.

(2) and (3) then follow.

Given that TLF is a broad church, and HYPing a minority sport within it, this exposes company news to the largest possible readership.

Posting solely on HYP Practical would not achieve this.

It's all about (2). Anything noteworthy would attract a (2). And I note that despite the heat in this thread, nobody has yet posted a (2) on HYP Practical, which rather supports my suspicion that there might not be a lot to say.

MDW1954