Polite Discussions query

[XFool]

WRT the Polite Discussion board and the new scheme of joining the "Discussion Group" to access it. Would it be easily technically possible to elaborate on the current model or, more simply, to modify it such that anyone can read PD, but you would need to join the group only if you wanted to post on the PD board?

TIA

[PinkDalek]

Would it be easily technically possible to elaborate on the current model or, more simply, to modify it such that anyone can read PD...

Wouldn't that negate one of the main purposes in making it subscriber only?

Namely from viewtopic.php?p=256465#p256465:

Some of the opinions expressed on PD had led to advertisers not supporting our site and even led Google to threaten to not allow us to display Google ads. That is one of the reasons it is moderated fairly robustly. Making an opt in means it will not be indexable by Google and it is also hoped that the board pruning will help improve site stability and performance.

[Itsallaguess]

WRT the Polite Discussion board and the new scheme of joining the "Discussion Group" to access it.

Would it be easily technically possible to elaborate on the current model or, more simply, to modify it such that anyone can read PD, but you would need to join the group only if you wanted to post on the PD board?

I think this post from Clariman is clear on one of the main reasons why the owners of the site wish to configure Polite Discussions as an 'opt-in' board -

Some of the opinions expressed on PD had led to advertisers not supporting our site and even led Google to threaten to not allow us to display Google ads. That is one of the reasons it is moderated fairly robustly.

Making an opt in means it will not be indexable by Google.

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19769&start=40#p256465

I should add that the above discussion topic around the change in status for Polite Discussions has been locked for a couple of weeks, so I offer the above purely to help explain the current situation in case you missed it first time round, and not as a precursor to a fresh discussion on the subject here....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[XFool]

I think this post from Clariman is clear on one of the main reasons why the owners of the site wish to configure Polite Discussions as an 'opt-in' board -

Some of the opinions expressed on PD had led to advertisers not supporting our site and even led Google to threaten to not allow us to display Google ads. That is one of the reasons it is moderated fairly robustly.

Making an opt in means it will not be indexable by Google.

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19769&start=40#p256465

I should add that the above discussion topic around the change in status for Polite Discussions has been locked for a couple of weeks, so I offer the above purely to help explain the current situation in case you missed it first time round, and not as a precursor to a fresh discussion on the subject here....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Yes, OK. My OP was actually a simplification of my original idea. With the above in mind it implies, unfortunately, a more complex setup would be needed to implement my idea as originally envisioned. A two stage opt in to the discussion group: Read Only or Read & Post options.

I guess, as the reason TLF implemented the Discussion Group was for the reasons highlighted above, they would have no incentive to implement this more complex arrangement.

[Arborbridge]

WRT the Polite Discussion board and the new scheme of joining the "Discussion Group" to access it. Would it be easily technically possible to elaborate on the current model or, more simply, to modify it such that anyone can read PD, but you would need to join the group only if you wanted to post on the PD board?

TIA

Can anyone explain to me what on earth is going on? Not long ago, I discovered quite a lively board - the Polite Discussions one - to which I contributed a little. I usually picked up stuff on it by checking the new posts in quick links, but there have been no contributions for a while, which seemed decidely odd.

Now it has vanished into the ether or been censored out, or something. Did I dream it, did PD ever really exist - has it joined the dark web?


Arb.

[stooz]

It's still there, follow the link, read the instruction on adding yourself to the group, and away you go.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

WRT the Polite Discussion board and the new scheme of joining the "Discussion Group" to access it.

Would it be easily technically possible to elaborate on the current model or, more simply, to modify it such that anyone can read PD, but you would need to join the group only if you wanted to post on the PD board?

I think this post from Clariman is clear on one of the main reasons why the owners of the site wish to configure Polite Discussions as an 'opt-in' board -

Some of the opinions expressed on PD had led to advertisers not supporting our site and even led Google to threaten to not allow us to display Google ads. That is one of the reasons it is moderated fairly robustly.

Making an opt in means it will not be indexable by Google.

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19769&start=40#p256465

I should add that the above discussion topic around the change in status for Polite Discussions has been locked for a couple of weeks, so I offer the above purely to help explain the current situation in case you missed it first time round, and not as a precursor to a fresh discussion on the subject here....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Go on then I'll fess up ... I had no idea ... none. And I'll admit to being ashamed of myself. I've grown naïve in my old age (coughs ... middle age). Thank you IAG ... your post and explanation are extremely revealing.

I did think it was more important to post here [as a way of saying thank you amongst other things] after your wish not to continue this thread than to PM you as I hope I speak for a few more than just [naïve] middle aged me

I hasten to add I haven't signed up for the PD board as I am not a "P" person

AiY

[Gengulphus]

It's still there, follow the link, read the instruction on adding yourself to the group, and away you go.

As it may not be clear just what link stooz is referring to, here are some instructions if you're not seeing Polite Discussions posts:

1) Go to ucp.php?i=181 (which is the "Usergroups" tab on the User Control Panel).
2) You will probably see "Polite Discussion Group" listed under "NON-MEMBERSHIPS" (if not, see below).
3) Click on the small circle to the right of "Polite Discussion Group" to select it.
4) Make certain "Join selected" is selected in the pull-down menu near the bottom right of the page, then click on "Submit".
5) "Polite Discussion Group" should now be listed under "MEMBERSHIPS", indicating that you're now in the group.

If after you've joined the group (or were already in it), you're still not seeing at Polite Discussions posts, it would probably be worth explaining how you're trying to read them - there are quite a few different methods of reading the boards!

Gengulphus

[Dod101]

I am delighted not to pick up the PD Board. Whilst it was in sight I somehow could not ignore it and then got either fed up or disgusted by the views expressed, or occasionally contributed. I felt always though that it did not help humankind very much and am very happy not to have it.

I am very happy with the new arrangements.

Dod

[Arborbridge]

It's still there, follow the link, read the instruction on adding yourself to the group, and away you go.

As it may not be clear just what link stooz is referring to, here are some instructions if you're not seeing Polite Discussions posts:

1) Go to ucp.php?i=181 (which is the "Usergroups" tab on the User Control Panel).
2) You will probably see "Polite Discussion Group" listed under "NON-MEMBERSHIPS" (if not, see below).
3) Click on the small circle to the right of "Polite Discussion Group" to select it.
4) Make certain "Join selected" is selected in the pull-down menu near the bottom right of the page, then click on "Submit".
5) "Polite Discussion Group" should now be listed under "MEMBERSHIPS", indicating that you're now in the group.

If after you've joined the group (or were already in it), you're still not seeing at Polite Discussions posts, it would probably be worth explaining how you're trying to read them - there are quite a few different methods of reading the boards!

Gengulphus

Thank you Gengulphus, for the expansion of Stooz's rather cryptic and basically unhelpful remark. You are, as ever, an stalwart at helping people.

Whether I want to join some secret society is a different matter, and I feel PD should be an open part and parcel of LMF - a worthwhile area for people to go to. I understand this is something to do with a US corporation applying censorship to a British activity. If so, that is utterly disgraceful and a tiny straw in the wind of how we will fair in direct negotiations with the US over trade.
I cannot agree with Dod, but as ever the solution is not to get drawn into reading something when you don't like it! The few days or weeks I read PD, it was by and large, indeed, polite - surprisingly so when dominated by the B word. I'm so sorry it is now part of the Dark Lemon - LMF is the worst owing to US interference, it seems.

Arb.

[Dod101]

Au contraire, Arb. An advertiser is perfectly entitled to decline to advertise if he thinks the content alongside his ad is unacceptable or is likely to debase his product. I am certain that advertisers do that all the time. Much of that on PD is verbal porn and so Google is perfectly at liberty to say that they do not want to advertise on a site alongside that. Google are not applying censorship any more than Unilever might decline to advertise in say Playboy.(I do not know if they do or not, but that is the sort of thing I mean)

Lighten up a bit and get realistic

Dod

[Gengulphus]

Whether I want to join some secret society is a different matter, and I feel PD should be an open part and parcel of LMF - a worthwhile area for people to go to. I understand this is something to do with a US corporation applying censorship to a British activity. ...

Sorry, Arb, but "He who pays the piper calls the tune" applies. As far as I can tell, TLF is mainly paid for by advertisers, and they're fully within their rights to withhold their advertisements from being shown on TLF and so not pay for it if they don't want their product associated with views expressed on the site.

Basically, the right to free speech does not include the right to insist that others provide onward transmission of one's speech for free (*) - if one wants that transmission, one has to accept whatever conditions the others place on providing it, or pay for it oneself, or decide to go without. TLF's users aren't collectively willing to pay enough in donations to the site to keep it going, at least AFAIAA (**), and so they have to accept the advertisers' conditions or not have the site... I'm not saying that's ideal - in my view, the ideal would be that TLF's users were collectively willing to make enough donations to completely fund the site and the advertisers could be told "please yourself, we don't actually need you" - but it is reality.

And by the way, at least in my view the essence of a 'secret society' is that it is secret. The site's home page has an entry:

"Polite discussion
The Polite Discussions group is for discussion of subjects people often feel strongly about. To join or leave it, follow the forum name to your profile settings to select the group."

which is visible whether or not one is in the group, and with "Polite discussion" being the link to the User Control Panel page that my instructions pointed people to. And if you go to that page, the relevant entry there is:

"Polite Discussion Group
This is a freely open group, all new members are welcome."

If the intention is that Polite Discussions is a 'secret society', I would say that mentioning it on the site's home page and allowing anyone to join it is a unbelievably incompetent attempt to put that intention into practice! The closest I can see to an attempt to keep it secret is the fact that the mention on the home page is low down in the list of boards, but (a) it always was - this change has made essentially no change to its position; (b) it's not possible for every board to be high in the list, and given that the site's main stated purpose is to be "Discussion forums for UK shares, Personal Finance and Investment", financial boards obviously have a better claim on the high positions...

(*) One might hold a view that it should include that right, of course, but I would suggest that anyone who holds that view considers the possibility that they themselves might become one of the "others" required to provide that transmission for free, for all sorts of people and organisations they thoroughly disapprove of!

(**) I don't know the actual numbers about where TLF's funding comes from, but that's certainly the impression I get from the various discussions I've seen about TLF's funding.

Gengulphus

[Itsallaguess]

Moderator Message:
This topic seems to have now degenerated into a mix of discussions that have already been covered in Stooz's earlier locked thread (linked to earlier), with a slice of other points that I think step well beyond the scope of this thread's intended topic.

Since the initial question has been answered, I've now tidied up and deleted some of those extraneous posts, leaving the most helpful ones to stand, and I'll now lock this thread.

With thanks to Gengulphus for posting his detailed instructions again, for gaining access to the Polite Discussions area for anyone interested to do so - Itsallaguess