The Lemon Fool

Hi folks,

Whilst I appreciate that the "Polite Discussions" board seems to divide opinion on TLF, one thing that I do find somewhat unusual about it is it's naming. I did mention this in another BB thread, however that post was off-topic at the time (was subsequently deleted), and in addition to being "thanked" by one member for the idea, it was suggested by Gengulphus that I repost in a specific thread. So here goes.

Anyway my point is that usage of the word "Polite" is inappropriate since polite is a subjective term, and even if that was not the case, should we infer that other boards are impolite?

So what I'm suggesting is that members consider renaming the board to something more descriptive of what is actually being discussed. To get the ball rolling I'm proposing "Political, philosophical and religious debate".

Comments welcome,
Matt

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:
So what I'm suggesting is that members consider renaming the board to something more descriptive of what is actually being discussed. To get the ball rolling I'm proposing "Political, philosophical and religious debate".

Comments welcome.

I think it should stay as it is.

Your proposal would be too restrictive for a board that could contain any number of themes, and I really don't see problem at all with the phrase 'Polite Discussions', as it is hoped that the current board title acts as a persistent reminder as to the acceptable tone of the discussions allowed in it.

Itsallaguess

Itsallaguess wrote:

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:
So what I'm suggesting is that members consider renaming the board to something more descriptive of what is actually being discussed. To get the ball rolling I'm proposing "Political, philosophical and religious debate".

Comments welcome.

I think it should stay as it is.

Your proposal would be too restrictive for a board that could contain any number of themes, and I really don't see any harm at all about the use of the phrase 'Polite Discussions', as it is hoped that the current board title acts as a persistent reminder as to the acceptable tone of the discussions allowed in it.

Itsallaguess

Sure, but shouldn't we act gracefully to others in all the boards? I have certainly witnessed snide and personal remarks in several of the investment boards. I would expect that behaviour to be viewed just as dimly anywhere on TLF.

Matt

How about "Pointless Discussions" ?

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:

Itsallaguess wrote:
I think it should stay as it is.

Your proposal would be too restrictive for a board that could contain any number of themes, and I really don't see any harm at all about the use of the phrase 'Polite Discussions', as it is hoped that the current board title acts as a persistent reminder as to the acceptable tone of the discussions allowed in it.

Sure, but shouldn't we act gracefully to others in all the boards?

I have certainly witnessed snide and personal remarks in several of the investment boards.

I would expect that behaviour to be viewed just as dimly anywhere on TLF.

Of course, and the general guidance regarding the range of acceptable behaviours for all the boards is contained within the site rules, which can be found here - https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/app.php/rules

So just because every individual board isn't prefixed with the word 'Polite' doesn't mean that such behaviour isn't expected at all times, as it clearly is, as defined in the above site rules.

The point about it being specifically spelt out on the 'Polite Discussions' board, is that it's broadly accepted that the 'Polite Discussions' board will act as a holding-ground for a very wide allowable range of debates of a much more robust nature, but whilst those robust debates are expected, it's also expected that they should be carried out in a 'Polite' manner, and I personally think that being persistently reminded about that fact on the way in the door can only be 'a good thing'...

Itsallaguess

Itsallaguess wrote:
I really don't see problem at all with the phrase 'Polite Discussions', as it is hoped that the current board title acts as a persistent reminder as to the acceptable tone of the discussions allowed in it.

Itsallaguess

wot e sed

Rob

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:So what I'm suggesting is that members consider renaming the board to something more descriptive of what is actually being discussed. To get the ball rolling I'm proposing "Political, philosophical and religious debate".

A problem with that is that there is also an entire section of boards called "Polite Discussion and Debate".

"Polite Discussions" is just one member of that group, and so is "The Meaning of Life", which is for discussions about Philosophy and Religion:

viewforum.php?f=85

Lootman wrote:

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:So what I'm suggesting is that members consider renaming the board to something more descriptive of what is actually being discussed. To get the ball rolling I'm proposing "Political, philosophical and religious debate".

A problem with that is that there is also an entire section of boards called "Polite Discussion and Debate".

"Polite Discussions" is just one member of that group, and so is "The Meaning of Life", which is for discussions about Philosophy and Religion:

viewforum.php?f=85

Oh yeah. Given what you've just shared with me "Political debate" would seem more appropriate for the place I'm discussing. I really don't get the big hangup with the polite bit, this place (TLF) is just so tame by comparison with most of the chat on WWW. Which is fair enough, very good in fact . I don't think I've ever really had anything particularly rude said to me on PD. I'd just say, somewhat misguided, since it's usually just when folk get a bit personal, which were it not for the fact that it's obviously going to be off-topic (since no threads are actually "about me or any other LF"), it's also fairly amusing, since no one on here actually knows me as a "real person" anyway.

FWIW "Political" would thus seem to describe what's being debated in the board, rather than going to a board to discuss "Polite".

Matt

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote: I really don't get the big hangup with the polite bit, this place (TLF) is just so tame by comparison with most of the chat on WWW. Which is fair enough, very good in fact . I don't think I've ever really had anything particularly rude said to me on PD.

Matt

Good. It seems to be working just fine then.

John

Isn't it time to institute a Brexit subforum (obviously requiring polite discussion)?

Hi Matt,

As explained in our PM exchange a week ago, the reason it is called Polite Discussions is as follows:

Let me deal with PD first. I can see why you think "Polite Discussions" is a misnomer. Actually it was called that from day one and its name was aspirational, in the sense that we did not want it to end up being the den of bitter argument that we knew it had the potential to become (and perhaps has become). It was an attempt to set the tone.

It could have a slightly more descriptive name but its discussion is broad and varied and the site's owners' desire is for the discussion to be polite. As others have said, its name is a constant reminder of that aspiration.

Clariman

Lootman wrote:

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:So what I'm suggesting is that members consider renaming the board to something more descriptive of what is actually being discussed. To get the ball rolling I'm proposing "Political, philosophical and religious debate".

A problem with that is that there is also an entire section of boards called "Polite Discussion and Debate".

"Polite Discussions" is just one member of that group, and so is "The Meaning of Life", which is for discussions about Philosophy and Religion:

viewforum.php?f=85

So why not just call it "General" to cover all the elements of "Polite Discussion and Debate" that aren't in the other sub-forums.

That said, I think the Lemon fool has far too many different sub-forums - its a complete maze to me.

As Lootman shared with me earlier in this thread the whole subforum which PD currently occupies is called Polite Debate & Discussion, so the repetition of the word "Polite" seems a little profligate.

I've stated earlier that "Polite" is a subjective term, and given that forum threads which often start in "Beerpig Snug", which seem to deviate from what some would like to consider the ambience of a virtual safe space with beers are moved over to PD, it seems a little bit disingenuous at times.

Perhaps I'm just observing a schism here; one view being that "PD" is an exceptionally gentile area for very tame exchanges, so verbose as to hide any difference of opinion in treacle thick verbosity, and the second being that "PD" is a dumping ground either for discussions originating in other boards which have gone awry (so probably are not particularly polite according to some) or ones which somehow not seem to fit anywhere else but the site still wants to host.

?

Matt

I navigate the forum by using a link which gives recent postings. That is not selective by topic.
/search.php?search_id=newposts

I think there is a good argument for calling a forum "Polite Discussions" as people do tend to go OTT at times on some topics. Parliament requires members to refer to each other in the third person in an attempt to reduce aggression. Hence I am quite happy with the status quo.

johnhemming wrote:I think there is a good argument for calling a forum "Polite Discussions" as people do tend to go OTT at times on some topics. Parliament requires members to refer to each other in the third person in an attempt to reduce aggression.

With all due respect, I appreciate being treated with civility in all the TLFs boards. Certainly how I play.

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:Perhaps I'm just observing a schism here; one view being that "PD" is an exceptionally gentile area for very tame exchanges, so verbose as to hide any difference of opinion in treacle thick verbosity, and the second being that "PD" is a dumping ground either for discussions originating in other boards which have gone awry (so probably are not particularly polite according to some) or ones which somehow not seem to fit anywhere else but the site still wants to host.

It is neither. We want it to do what it says on the tin.. Discussion can be robust in terms of powerful logic and argument, but it should remain polite and respectful. It may not live up to that but we will not be budged from that aspiration.

Clariman

Clariman wrote:

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:Perhaps I'm just observing a schism here; one view being that "PD" is an exceptionally gentile area for very tame exchanges, so verbose as to hide any difference of opinion in treacle thick verbosity, and the second being that "PD" is a dumping ground either for discussions originating in other boards which have gone awry (so probably are not particularly polite according to some) or ones which somehow not seem to fit anywhere else but the site still wants to host.

It is neither. We want it to do what it says on the tin.. Discussion can be robust in terms of powerful logic and argument, but it should remain polite and respectful. It may not live up to that but we will not be budged from that aspiration.

Clariman

If, hypothetically I posted a thread saying: "There are only two genders" and mounted a respectful and logical defence of the proposition it would still be in the bin. You know it and I know it. I flounced off after a discussion about the existence of dyslexia as a diagnosis was canned despite it being pretty positive and educational.

So colour me disbelieving. The PD Board is a leftist PC echo chamber and any non-conformism gets blackholed, pronto.

Thanks for the boards, but it is plain as day that there are a whole bunch of taboo topics that can never get discussed here, no matter how polite and logical the participants. It's your gaff, your rules, and thats how it is. I understand why, its bloody hard to run a public webforum while maintaining some free speech.

JoyofBricks8 wrote:

Clariman wrote:It is neither. We want it to do what it says on the tin.. Discussion can be robust in terms of powerful logic and argument, but it should remain polite and respectful. It may not live up to that but we will not be budged from that aspiration.

Clariman

If, hypothetically I posted a thread saying: "There are only two genders" and mounted a respectful and logical defence of the proposition it would still be in the bin. You know it and I know it. I flounced off after a discussion about the existence of dyslexia as a diagnosis was canned despite it being pretty positive and educational.

I remember the "dyslexia" (actually 'Dislexia'!) discussion. I too was annoyed by it being curtailed - in a very summary way, with no warning or explanation. Due to protests its closure was up for review but, as explained at the time, the OP (You?) left TLF and asked for all their posts to be deleted, so it was not reinstated.

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=15662

JoyofBricks8 wrote:So colour me disbelieving. The PD Board is a leftist PC echo chamber and any non-conformism gets blackholed, pronto.

Hardly! I could just as easily (and with more justification) claim it as a 'rightist anti-PC echo chamber'.

JoyofBricks8 wrote:Thanks for the boards, but it is plain as day that there are a whole bunch of taboo topics that can never get discussed here, no matter how polite and logical the participants. It's your gaff, your rules, and thats how it is. I understand why, its bloody hard to run a public webforum while maintaining some free speech.

Advertisers and commercial interests. It's the market...

JoyofBricks8 wrote:I understand why, its bloody hard to run a public webforum while maintaining some free speech.

JoB, whilst it's nice to get the chance to agree with you every once in a while, I didn't actually realise it was that difficult....

To be honest, I've posted from time to time on the "Political and Religious" forum on a US-hosted site "arboristsite.com". Usually about Trump, Climate change or Brexit. It is mainly frequented by the most stupid, vile, racist, homophobic, etc. etc. right wing nutters, and the site does run ads, is free (though it has "sponsors"), and has been going for years (at least 10?), and doesn't seem to be in any risk of being closed down due to "legal issues" due the language used in it's P&R board.

My point is 1) the LF is very tame by comparison, which doesn't surprise me at all, (and is clearly a Good Thing), 2) the risks of any kind of legal issues due to what has ever been on TLF's boards seem incredibly remote given what occurs on a daily basis on either sites like the one I cite above, or FB, Snapchat, Twitter, Advfn etc. etc.

No, I'm not suggesting that TLF should drop it's standards, just maybe be a little more realistic about the types of debates and discussions grown ups frequently have, or drop the pretence of hosting them.

Matt

EDIT Do some sites and forums operate with different legal constraints regards what posters can and can't say when online?

Is it worth asking ourselves if we have a sense of entitlement to something?

And if so is that belief driving our interpration of events?

If we feel that free speech is being impeded on TLF we can of course elect, freely, to use another forum. It's a radical thought but probably worth considering given the gravity of the subject.

I often reflect on issues. I suppose that could be the sign of an over-thinker. This is a small forum. It's free. Even the subscription isn't astronomical. And I have received much advice from other users, I hasten to add some of it useful. All given freely.

I don't recall having thought at any time that my freedom of speech was being muted. I think the site is well managed. And as I've said the freedom I have to use any other sites is there for me to take.

AiY