The Lemon Fool

Morning all! Noticed increasing tendency to general discussions, and banter.

Of course Covid has been all consuming the past 12 months. Nothing wrong with discussing what any like to do. But there is less financial discussion, sharing shares and investment ideas. Less people sharing portfolios. And I guess demise in interest in HYP. I don't do HYP myself but enjoy following the discussion of Pyad UK divi UK shares etc.

Wondered if help to relegate non financial discussions to a general subform, to promote investing focus. Or am I wrong? Cheers, Adam

Adamski wrote:Morning all! Noticed increasing tendency to general discussions, and banter.

Of course Covid has been all consuming the past 12 months. Nothing wrong with discussing what any like to do. But there is less financial discussion, sharing shares and investment ideas. Less people sharing portfolios. And I guess demise in interest in HYP. I don't do HYP myself but enjoy following the discussion of Pyad UK divi UK shares etc.

Wondered if help to relegate non financial discussions to a general subform, to promote investing focus. Or am I wrong? Cheers, Adam

The same seems to happen to all forums. When I abandoned the canals forum, few of posts were to do with boats. It was 33% politics, 33% whether or not politics should be allowed, 33% covidiocy. Same now in The Combustion Chamber. Less than 50% of posts are about gas engineering. I think it is in the nature of forums and hard to stamp out.

Adamski wrote:Morning all! Noticed increasing tendency to general discussions, and banter.

Of course Covid has been all consuming the past 12 months. Nothing wrong with discussing what any like to do. But there is less financial discussion, sharing shares and investment ideas. Less people sharing portfolios. And I guess demise in interest in HYP. I don't do HYP myself but enjoy following the discussion of Pyad UK divi UK shares etc.

Wondered if help to relegate non financial discussions to a general subform, to promote investing focus. Or am I wrong? Cheers, Adam

The problem is this place is inhabited by a bunch of old farts, average age probably about 102. We are mostly cynical and have learned all there is to know about investing. Young blood gravitates to sites like LSE where banter is permitted and the culture is not geriatric.

It's not really surprising because TLF was really set up as a refuge for the older, established crowd from TMF. Some really good Motley Fool innovations (like Best Of board) were rejected. Also, the most dynamic investing board (Banking Sector) was fatally damaged by OldBoyReturns setting up a competing forum -- the two could not both survive and his forum bit the dust pretty quickly, but not before dragging away a lot of the regulars of the Banking Sector crowd, never to be seen again.

There are other factors like Twitter and Stockopedia, but really, if this place doesn't come up with some innovations and market to a new crowd then the direction of travel is obvious...

GS
P.S. I once wrote HYP's obituary on TMF back in 2007-ish, a bit early but its future demise was clear to see even back then. Gilts yielded more than HYP stocks, had a fraction of the volatility and have travelled in one direction ever since. The devout just repeated that fixed interest income would not rise with inflation and blocked their ears when it was pointed out that stocks had discretionary dividends which could be cut just as well as raised -- whereas gilt coupons could not be cut. Very interesting 10-15 years for investors...

On the P2P forum most posts concern Covid or Brexit, as well as how to get out of failing/failed platforms. Very little assessment of new opportunities...

It comes under the heading of 'poster fatigue'.
On most fora, the lurker/poster ratio is high, few people actually post.

After a few years of the same old same old, covered a hundred times, people get tired of replying.
As Mike said, it affects all forums.

Not helped on here by the clowns who undermined HYPP which was a flourishing if argumentative forum, and now is not.

I would post my portfolio but I'm not that organised. Always grateful to those that do.

As to what I'm buying now, topping up a few income-focused ITs when they're at a discount.
https://lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=26503
Not exactly riveting, I'm afraid

V8

GoSeigen wrote:The problem is this place is inhabited by a bunch of old farts, average age probably about 102. We are mostly cynical and have learned all there is to know about investing. Young blood gravitates to sites like LSE where banter is permitted and the culture is not geriatric.....

Gilts yielded more than HYP stocks, had a fraction of the volatility and have travelled in one direction ever since.

Haha, yes, in my case.

I do peep at LSE, but it seems to be mostly day traders. ADVFN little better.

Gilts.... are a closed book to me and I bet most others. Why? What for? As an income investor who doesn't even 'do' TR, it's hard for me to get interested in gilts......and discuss something one doesn't understand. Unless there is a significant number of people discussing and sharing knowledge on a topic it becomes one-way traffic... GS educating the world... which would become boring for GS...

V8 oldfart

Adamski wrote:Morning all! Noticed increasing tendency to general discussions, and banter.

Of course Covid has been all consuming the past 12 months. Nothing wrong with discussing what any like to do. But there is less financial discussion, sharing shares and investment ideas. Less people sharing portfolios. And I guess demise in interest in HYP. I don't do HYP myself but enjoy following the discussion of Pyad UK divi UK shares etc.

Wondered if help to relegate non financial discussions to a general subform, to promote investing focus. Or am I wrong? Cheers, Adam

I guess its hard to promote share and investment ideas on Boards such as HYP-P when very few shares meet the criteria as a share idea under that system currently. Hardly surprising the quantity and quality of posts will have diminished. Posts about "topping up" can hardly excite and are little more than a running commentary for the practitioners.

I agree it is a shame that few seem to post, discuss, reply, contribute on other Boards such as Share Ideas, Growth Strategies, Company Share News etc. which should all be in vogue in current, and indeed all, market conditions. Few posts seem to generate replies, let alone lengthy discussions, which doesn't encourage the instigators I suppose.

The catch with a lot of us following mainly passive investment approaches is there is not really a lot to say, one buys, sits with the holding and that is it, whilst I have in the past repositioned from single shares to ITs and UK facing to more world facing I, for one, am and at the point where a couple more individual share disposals and I will be all ITs and the only decisions I really need to take are maybe 3-4 times a year top up an existing or acquire something new.

In addition as I in effect run just one portfolio ,which is now a mixed bag of yield and growth albeit still more yield, it has difficulty fitting squarely into either HYP thread so my comments/postings need to be circumspect and of course this is coupled with dread of making comments on the wrong HYP board.

This all results in my making fewer posts than I might otherwise though I do pop in and read re other aspects of investing from time to time.

GoSeigen wrote:The problem is this place is inhabited by a bunch of old farts, average age probably about 102. We are mostly cynical and have learned all there is to know about investing. Young blood gravitates to sites like LSE where banter is permitted and the culture is not geriatric. It's not really surprising because TLF was really set up as a refuge for the older, established crowd from TMF. Some really good Motley Fool innovations (like Best Of board) were rejected.

Thanks for making me laugh this morning . On a serious note, the site is what the users make it. TLF does not generate its own content; it simply provides a well-managed forum to enable others to talk about what interests them.

TLF was not set up for the "older established crowd" but that may be the community who came this way. The truth is that TMF had already lost the general personal finance community to more vibrant forums like moneysavingexpert where Martin Lewis's TV profile drew many people. By the time TMF closed its boards that younger community had gone. My greatest personal disappointment about TLF is that we haven't drawn much of that crowd back, so this site has mostly become an Investors' site rather than a broader Personal Finance site. Most people who have significant cash to invest are older so that is maybe reflected in what you see.

C

GoSeigen wrote:

Adamski wrote:Morning all! Noticed increasing tendency to general discussions, and banter.

Of course Covid has been all consuming the past 12 months. Nothing wrong with discussing what any like to do. But there is less financial discussion, sharing shares and investment ideas. Less people sharing portfolios. And I guess demise in interest in HYP. I don't do HYP myself but enjoy following the discussion of Pyad UK divi UK shares etc.

Wondered if help to relegate non financial discussions to a general subform, to promote investing focus. Or am I wrong? Cheers, Adam

The problem is this place is inhabited by a bunch of old farts, average age probably about 102. We are mostly cynical and have learned all there is to know about investing.

Hit the nail on the head? I couldn't possibly comment...

GoSeigen wrote:Young blood gravitates to sites like LSE where banter is permitted and the culture is not geriatric.

It's not really surprising because TLF was really set up as a refuge for the older, established crowd from TMF. Some really good Motley Fool innovations (like Best Of board) were rejected. Also, the most dynamic investing board (Banking Sector) was fatally damaged by OldBoyReturns setting up a competing forum -- the two could not both survive and his forum bit the dust pretty quickly, but not before dragging away a lot of the regulars of the Banking Sector crowd, never to be seen again.

There are other factors like Twitter and Stockopedia, but really, if this place doesn't come up with some innovations and market to a new crowd then the direction of travel is obvious...

Really, didn't the same thing happen to TMF UK?

I think all are missing the real point. At this time of year there is very little financial news being reported. The first of the 2020 results (which should mostly be more interesting than usual because of the financial effects of Covid) will not start being reported until next month and then we get an avalanche for the next few weeks.

BTW, GS may think he has learned all there is to know about investing. I have not and I suspect that applies to most of the posters whether they acknowledge it or not. Like company boardrooms and private members' clubs, TLF in the main attracts like minded people. That is the nature of these things. Fortunately not too like minded otherwise there would be no meaningful discussion, but it is fairly clear that we are mostly middle of the road folks who have the time, energy and resources to have something to contribute. It is surely also clear that it does attract younger investors who are anxious to try to learn something from the more experienced.

Dod

The problem is this place is inhabited by a bunch of old farts, average age probably about 102. We are mostly cynical and have learned all there is to know about investing. Young blood gravitates to sites like LSE where banter is permitted and the culture is not geriatric.

Yes I think so.

This for example :-

https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/

Populated by a young crowd, has much of the stuff people used to talk about on fool.co.uk. (a LOT more restricted on the investing side - just buy a global tracker is the generally accepted wisdom there, and not a bad idea either)

The next generation teaches themselves it seems.

Adamski wrote:Morning all! Noticed increasing tendency to general discussions, and banter.

Of course Covid has been all consuming the past 12 months. Nothing wrong with discussing what any like to do. But there is less financial discussion, sharing shares and investment ideas. Less people sharing portfolios. And I guess demise in interest in HYP. I don't do HYP myself but enjoy following the discussion of Pyad UK divi UK shares etc.

Wondered if help to relegate non financial discussions to a general subform, to promote investing focus. Or am I wrong? Cheers, Adam

I made a similar point back here (key extract in bold type):

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months, AND the apparent decline in the number of posts and discussions about investment matters and particularly Investment Trust matters.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26989

paulnumbers wrote:

The problem is this place is inhabited by a bunch of old farts, average age probably about 102. We are mostly cynical and have learned all there is to know about investing. Young blood gravitates to sites like LSE where banter is permitted and the culture is not geriatric.

Yes I think so.

This for example :-

https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/

Populated by a young crowd, has much of the stuff people used to talk about on fool.co.uk. (a LOT more restricted on the investing side - just buy a global tracker is the generally accepted wisdom there, and not a bad idea either)

The next generation teaches themselves it seems.

Wow, that is an active place. Maybe should be looking around a bit at what is elsewhere... waste even more of my day LOL.

GS

Clariman wrote:TLF was not set up for the "older established crowd" but that may be the community who came this way. The truth is that TMF had already lost the general personal finance community to more vibrant forums like moneysavingexpert where Martin Lewis's TV profile drew many people. By the time TMF closed its boards that younger community had gone. My greatest personal disappointment about TLF is that we haven't drawn much of that crowd back, so this site has mostly become an Investors' site rather than a broader Personal Finance site. Most people who have significant cash to invest are older so that is maybe reflected in what you see.

I think that is true but isn't there room for sites that give personal finance information and also for more specialised sites that deal more with investment issues for the afore-mentioned "old farts"? I for one do not have a lot of interest in personal finance stuff because I consider I have moved beyond needing help with that.

That in turn comes down to what ambitions you and Stooz have for this place. Do you want it to have far more users and commentary? Doesn't this take enough of your time already? It's not like you make money from it (as far as I know anyway, and I don't mind if you do). The thing with TMF was that it was ultimately trying to cash in on its "advice". It did this by enticing eyeballs with the personal finance aspect and then hoped to sell investment products and services to those same people. When TMF started losing the personal finance crowd that business model started to fail. The TMF forums were there to generate revenue and, when they ceased to do that, they were canned. But that is not a factor for TLF I would have thought.

TMF were quite aggressive about moderating the "advice" boards (e.g. debt, legal) as they had a fairly rigid house view on what was the kind of advice they wanted to see being given out under their name and umbrella. Their PR strategy was trying to cultivate a public image and persona that they believed would lead to more demand for TMF products, but ultimately that strategy failed. For me, once the TMF boards went away, there was nothing there to see, and I have never consciously been to that site since. TMF's "house" investment advice is terrible, in my view.

GoSeigen wrote:the most dynamic investing board (Banking Sector) was fatally damaged by OldBoyReturns setting up a competing forum -- the two could not both survive and his forum bit the dust pretty quickly, but not before dragging away a lot of the regulars of the Banking Sector crowd, never to be seen again.

Not sure that the TMF banking board was the most "dynamic" there, unless of course that is your favourite sector to invest in. In fact banks have been a terrible place to invest for 15 years now, except as a short-term trade here and there. In terms of interest the HYP boards dominated, although as you note they faded as value shares more generally faded, with growth out-performing value for a good 15 years now.

Personally I liked the boards for ITs, options and small/AIM companies. Then again I am not interested in banks and gilts, which seem to be what you prefer.

I agree the demographic skews old here. I was 21 years younger when I joined TMF, and the kids want something racier now, I assume. If this place became too young and trendy I would probably lose interest. Grumpy old codgers need a place too.

Lootman wrote:Not sure that the TMF banking board was the most "dynamic" there,

It depends what you mean by dynamic. I am not sure any other board coordinated the issuing of litigation against a bank.

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:I'm afraid my opinion is that (pretty much all) traditional web, script based forums have a use by date. I suspect this one will be no different. Forums like this are, in my opinion anyway, largely a late 90's and noughties thing predominantly. Having been replaced in the most part now by social media platforms, in particular, for younger users. Forums such as this really developed out of internet bulletin boards and usenet. In turn, forums are being replaced by social media platforms. In turn, they will be replaced by something else too. Ad infinitum. There's nothing anyone can really do, just enjoy it while it's here.

It's not quite as fleeting as you make out. TMF UK more-or-less thrived for around 18 years, probably a little longer than Usenet's heyday. TLF filled the gap when it was abruptly removed, and while it probably didn't manage to get a majority of the TMF subscribers, in itself it has been a success I think (and continues to be so).

Scott.

Adamski wrote:Morning all! Noticed increasing tendency to general discussions, and banter.

Of course Covid has been all consuming the past 12 months. Nothing wrong with discussing what any like to do. But there is less financial discussion, sharing shares and investment ideas. Less people sharing portfolios. And I guess demise in interest in HYP. I don't do HYP myself but enjoy following the discussion of Pyad UK divi UK shares etc.

Wondered if help to relegate non financial discussions to a general subform, to promote investing focus. Or am I wrong? Cheers, Adam

I think that's just a navigation issue within the structure of the site. However, we come back to the argument that to make change we are asking others to give up their free time. And that's an ask too far isn't it?

I post frequently about non financial stuff. I ask plenty of questions and have been fortunate to have constructive feedback which has helped me formulate strategies regarding my finances. On those occasions that I have posted regarding specific companies I haven't had much response in the way of conversation. Not grumbling. Simple reality.

I think Clariman has actually said it all - this forum is what we all make it. Dod's comment about a lack of result information also may explain some reduction in posting.

AiY
102 year old fart

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote: Having been replaced in the most part now by social media platforms, in particular, for younger users.

Techically the ability to see a list of subjects upon which there have been recent posts is a good thing. I vary as to how much spare time I have and without that sort of facility would be unlikely to participate in a forum.

johnhemming wrote:

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote: Having been replaced in the most part now by social media platforms, in particular, for younger users.

Techically the ability to see a list of subjects upon which there have been recent posts is a good thing. I vary as to how much spare time I have and without that sort of facility would be unlikely to participate in a forum.

That's a good point. I look at the Lemon Lounge postings first, then the Investors Forum, Then I proceed to unread posts and look at any which might be of interest. 90% are not, as far as I am concerned, but I can pick up anything of interest.

TJH